And trying to figure out why you have to listen again and a again...

Well if a pictures are worth a thousand words.. a video's worth a million..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aVE0RHsiYA

Might be time to review restricted speed and general rule S (safety) rules again....

PS, the contributor looks like an RYPN poster

I'm not quite sure what to make of this video. I almost don't want to comment...

From my CSX days...

A former coworker was up in Chicago working as a conductor. She was getting onto the lead unit of her trailer train when an NS train on an adjacent track grabbed the strap of her bag, pulling her under the train and killing her.

Watching that video made me think of her. :-(

Wow.

So often museum volunteers and staff are afraid to be firm about getting people to move. They need to see this and understand. That video illustrates one of many nightmares that tourist/museum railroading gives me.

Just... wow.

I would also suggest that perhaps the engineer was moving the locomotive a little too fast for the location. He was definitely moving at more than a fast walking speed-probably too fast given that he was moving within station limits. That said, there's no excuse for standing in the foul zone. At TVRM, the rule was to keep from fouling a track unless absolutely necessary. Also, our speed limit in the yards was 5 mph-basically a fast walking speed.

The trainman riding the leading end of the locomotive should have done more as well-easy to say in hindsight, but it's true. He should have drawn the engineman's attention to the person standing near the track and either the trainmen on the ground should have forced the person to move or the locomotive should have stopped. The fact that neither occurred points to negligence on the part of the crew.

Railroaders should be courteous to guests. However, when safety dictates we must take the safest course of action for ourselves and our visitors. When I was with TVRM, the tour guide or trainman leading the shop tours always protected the crosswalks when train movements were occurring. On excursions, we pushed the photo line back to a safe distance before allowing the run by to start. In some cases, we opted to cancel the run by for safety reasons-not at all popular with the railfans but necessary in some cases to assure safety. If someone refused to cooperate, we'd stop the run by until the situation was resolved and we were firm. Every crew member understood that during the run by, the job of those on the platform or photo line was to keep the guests at a safe distance. If that meant that they were in some railfan's photograph-tough. As conductor, my job wasn't to bend to every desire of the railfans-my job was to see that the train operations were conducted with maximum efficiency, economy and safety.

Quite frankly, I believe that the video demonstrates that this particular crew was negligent in conducting their train operations. If I were the operations manager for that line, that crew would have been in serious trouble.

I do not even want to think about the number of violations which were evident in that clip. Were I sitting on this at the very least - just based on the film - the employee riding the end platform, the employee who approached the the victim and then turned away, and probably the engineer would be on the street.

I will agree completely with anyone who states here that the person should not have been where he was struck but then I am afraid I must hold the Railroad responsible for accident due to the fact that its employees/agents were aware of his presence and permitted him to remain there.

GME

This is not too surprising when you consider the number of books on the rack at the museum store and the local hobby shop that feature cover shots that were taken from distances absurdly close to the track where you could easily get hit.

One particular photographer and one particular publisher come to mind immediately.

MX

And we wander why the railroads have no time for railfans and don't want them on their property?
Yes, the crew was not blameless, but railfans do what this guy did all of the time, and they, more than the general public should know better. Many times I have been forced into a situation when I have to seriously think about dumping a train because of some railfan wanting to get that "killer shot". He doesn't think about anyone else but himself. That includes the engine crew, the train crew, or the passengers who might get injured from an emergency stop.
While I hope this person is ok, I get really ticked off when the crews are blamed for someone else acting foolishly.
The next time you get kicked off of railroad property, don't blame them, just think of the video.

Sadly the ridiculously "up close" photography gets glamorized by its use as cover shots. A moderator of another internet discussion group recently commented that one of the railfan photographers who repeatedly engages in this kind of dangerously close image seeking is a "great" photographer. I disagree completely. We have had many great photographers in the hobby that demonstrated their skill and artistry without engaging in dangerous behavior, and did not publish work that encourages others to mimic stupidity.

MX

Well, I'll spill two comments that come to mind:

1) Any wonder the BM&R doesn't run regular passenger excursions any more?

2) This crew was most likely lulled into a sense of complacency by the 999 other photographers that got their shots and gamely stepped out of the way at the last half-second.

Have I ever done this kind of thing? Guilty as charged, although not so close and not with things blocking my possible escape path like that fence. But IF I do anything like this, I consult with the crew beforehand and/or wear high-visibility vests and other safety gear.

At least this isn't the video that's floating around out there of a commuter struck when she darted around the end of a stopped train and into the path of an express barreling through on the center track. If you ever find the unedited version of that, the camera's tripod is knocked over by....... errr, figure it out. I ain't looking for it to give you a link.

Everyone,

I was shocked that to see this video this morning. People should have more common sense.

Can't you get that " Killer " photograph with a telephoto lens?

I hope that all Rail Fans Everywhere will wake up and smell the coffee after seeing this. It was a tragedy to say the least but could have been far worse. The truth is, this was avoidable.

I would not be suprised if the insurance premiums go up after this episode.

We all need to take resposiblity for ourselves. Safety First!!!!

I'm climbing down safetly from my soap box now,

JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian

In my opinion no true "fan" would post something like this on YouTube.

I'll speak as a railroader (albeit a younger one that has grown up in teh safety culture of today):

When running long hood first, the person on the long nose should have given better hand signals when going through the station area. And those hand signals should have included STOP when that guy didn't get off the tracks as they crossed the street. Also, riding on the platform itself isn't that good of an idea, as it is always easier to bail from the steps in case something goes wrong.

Second, the knuckle issue. I could not believe how many times he went between those knuckles when they were just a few feet apart! I know there was no "Red zone" or "3-step" procedure in place, so for any reason a miscommunication was received and the engine started moving to make the joint - it would have become REAL ugly. My road wants you to pull the equipment apart one car length to make knuckle or draw bar adjustments. Now this can be a pain when making fine adjustments, but at least do not go between the knuckles. Climb up on the engine and cross over that platform.

These machines can kill. I think some of the looser organizations can forget that while presenting a show for railfans or families. This is machinery, plain and simple, and it will kill. Some have criticized steamtown for not doing run-bys. Imagine the lawsuits if that was 2317 taking out a photographer. Do not be afraid to yell at the railfan standing too close. He may think he "knows better", but there have been plenty of 30+ year RR veterans killed.

I just got an e-mail from a working railroader to whom I sent this clip. To paraphrase his words a bit (meaning editing out some profanities):

"If this had happened on [the Class One for whom I work] and the video had been presented to the investigators, that crew would be fired for the multiple violations I saw--and both the union and all the blowhards on [PopularRailfanSite] would be screaming about how it wasn't their fault, Darwin Award candidates, etc.! And now you know why some railroaders DESPISE railfans and their cameras!!!!"

Nooooooooooooo comment.

Has anyone invented a radio controlled railfan camera? There is also a new invention called a "cable release". A prize winning cover photo of a CPR train entering a curved tunnel (camera inside the tunnel looking out) used this trick. I think it was on the cover of Railway Age trade magazine, the Canadian Pacific's annual report, and a railfan magazine, with a caption explaining how the trick was safely done.