Jim, this sounds like PRR 1361. The Penn clearly got their money's worth out of that engine.

As an aside, PRR did not go out with overhauled steam sitting unused; when traffic picked up in 1956, they rented somebody else's overhauled steam that was not being used! (ATSF 5011's + RDG T-1's)

The Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> Not too many people knew it was there.

> 3254 was at the Ashland Motel, up at the top
> of the hill from the RDG tracks,

Actually, the RDG Ashland Upper Route ran right behind the hotel. In fact, Mr. Barron stated that the RDG left the tracks in place until the 3254 was delivered, along with a Pullman heavyweight. As soon as the equipment arrived, and I believe moved into position on temporary track, the Ashland Upper Route was ripped out. Around 1967, Mr. Barron erected a shed over the engine and tender. It was open on the sides so his customers could look at the engine but was wide enough to keep most of the weather off the engine. He also had a string of light bulbs run inside the boiler in an attempt to keep the boiler dry. I recall several tourist lines of the 1970's looking the engine over for purchase, the closest being the New Hope & Ivyland. Mr. Barron sold the engine to the Gettysburg and it was traded to the Steamtown Foundation for the 1278 as it was too large for the GETY.

rpsurv@nni.com

> Jim, this sounds like PRR 1361. The Penn
> clearly got their money's worth out of that
> engine.

> As an aside, PRR did not go out with
> overhauled steam sitting unused; when
> traffic picked up in 1956, they rented
> somebody else's overhauled steam that was
> not being used! (ATSF 5011's + RDG T-1's)

Au contraire, Phil. When the last fires were dropped in November of 1957, the PRR held about 135 engines, including J-1's, I-1's, M-1's and others with flue time, in the event that they were needed as the economy emerged from the recession that year. Alas, the steel strike in '58 kept the recovery from being robust. As flue time ran out, engines were retired, and at the end of 1959, those still held were all retired and sent to their fate.


K4s1361@hotmail.com

The Oahu Railway & Land owned 4 3-foot gauge 2-8-2's numbered 60, 70, 80 & 90 built on the same drawings as the D&RGW's K-28 class (except for the air pump location). OR&L largely shut down in 1947 and cut up 70, 80 & 90 in 1948. A few steam engines and diesels were kept for switching the Honolulu docks and working the pineapple canners. #60 was overhauled in 1950 for use during the Korean War, and was test run, but never used again.

#60 sat in storage in Honolulu until 1966 when it was scrapped.

earlk489@hotmail.com

Flue time, yes, but not zero time off a fresh overhaul. Someone else would know when PRR stopped doing overhauls on steam.

The Electric City Trolley Museum Association

I must post a correction to my earlier posting.

My information came from several letters from Mr. Barron and a conversation that I had with him many years ago. Apparently, I was misled and the facts that I thought were true regarding the move of the 3254 were WRONG.

Mr. G. Wayne Leapple was there back when the 3254 was indeed hauled up to Mr. Barron's Hotel. According to Wayne, the Ashland Upper Route was already removed when Mr. Barron purchased the 3254, though he wanted to operate the locomotive over local RDG trackage. It took three trucks and the engine was loaded at the RDG Ashland freight house. Mr. Mike Tillger has stated that Penn Equipment of Port Carbon, PA did the moving for Mr. Barron. Also, the Pullman that was at the Motel site was the "Meadow Lark" according to Wayne.

My sincere thanks to Wayne and Mike for correcting my obvious mistake, for which I take full responsibility. My punishment will be repeated viewing of "GM Flexible Bus History" and "The Boeing 707: A Jet for All Seasons" .

Again, to those who were misled, I am sorry.


rpsurv@nni.com

> John: Thanks for submitting the photo of
> #4001; always a pleasure to see any photo of
> Q steam. I seem to recall reading that the
> Burlington converted a couple of Hudson's to
> oil burners (class S4b). Was #4001 one of
> those? If she was, she would have seemed a
> "natural" (considering the
> overhaul already done) to replace the 5632
> when that engine came due for heavy repairs.
> Wonder if the Q ever even considered it?

4001 was not one of the oil-burning 4-6-4s. 4002 and 4003 were the S4B oilburners. 4001 was sold for scrap in October of 1960 and the two S4B's followed a month later. 5632 was still getting extensions on her flues at that time so I wouldn't think that replacement with the 4001 was even considered. The 5632 lasted in service until late in 1964. The rumor floated around for awhile that previous to this, 5629 was considered

old_fxrs@msn.com

> John: Thanks for submitting the photo of
> #4001; always a pleasure to see any photo of
> Q steam. I seem to recall reading that the
> Burlington converted a couple of Hudson's to
> oil burners (class S4b). Was #4001 one of
> those? If she was, she would have seemed a
> "natural" (considering the
> overhaul already done) to replace the 5632
> when that engine came due for heavy repairs.
> Wonder if the Q ever even considered it?

4001 was not one of the oil-burning 4-6-4s. 4002 and 4003 were the S4B oilburners. 4001 was sold for scrap in October of 1960 and the two S4B's followed a month later. 5632 was still getting extensions on her flues at that time so I wouldn't think that replacement with the 4001 was even considered. The 5632 lasted in service until late in 1964. The rumor floated around for awhile that previous to this, 5629 was considered as a replacement for 5632. 5629 was last used as a stationary boiler. As we all know, this never happened and thank goodness 5629 is still with us, unlike her more famous sister, 5632. By the way, Bob Richardson's book "Chasing Trains" mentions that 5629 has internal damage caused when she was not properly drained and froze......"and great damage had been done thoughout, rendering steaming very unlikely." Can anyone provide more details to the "great damage"? Thanks.
Don C.


old_fxrs@msn.com

> Richardson's book "Chasing Trains"
> mentions that 5629 has internal damage
> caused when she was not properly drained and
> froze......"and great damage had been
> done thoughout, rendering steaming very
> unlikely." Can anyone provide more
> details to the "great damage"?
> Thanks.
> Don C.

Don,

You can start at the water pump, and go from there. This is a problem that alot of our NW steamers have, the water pump wasn't properly drained, and when the first freeze happened,....let's just say cast iron isn't very forgiving!

It seems Worthington is currently "out of stock" on these at this time, and the back order log is getting longer!

Smokebox

> 4001 was not one of the oil-burning 4-6-4s.
> 4002 and 4003 were the S4B oilburners. 4001
> was sold for scrap in October of 1960 and
> the two S4B's followed a month later. 5632
> was still getting extensions on her flues at
> that time so I wouldn't think that
> replacement with the 4001 was even
> considered. The 5632 lasted in service until
> late in 1964. The rumor floated around for
> awhile that previous to this, 5629 was
> considered as a replacement for 5632. 5629
> was last used as a stationary boiler. As we
> all know, this never happened and thank
> goodness 5629 is still with us, unlike her
> more famous sister, 5632. By the way, Bob
> Richardson's book "Chasing Trains"
> mentions that 5629 has internal damage
> caused when she was not properly drained and
> froze......"and great damage had been
> done thoughout, rendering steaming very
> unlikely." Can anyone provide more
> details to the "great damage"?
> Thanks.
> Don C.

Don - Thanks for the enlightenment. I realize that 5632 was still getting flue extensions in the period of the early 60's BUT here you had an engine that was already overhauled (the 4001) and just sitting there. It seems that perhaps the Burlington might have said, OK, when the `32 HAS to have those heavy repairs, then we use the 4001 in her place. Remember that President Murphy was still in charge at that time and the Q hadn't yet decided to end the steam excursion program. The bad thing is that 4001 was not an oil burner. That might have been the main mark against her and why they never considered her for a substitute.

Sad to hear that O5b 5629 had "mechanical problems". There has been talk (not serious I think) from time to time about restoring her to service. But of course there still IS sister 5614 in St. Joe. Sure would like to ride behind an O5 one more time!

Les Beckman (HVRM)

midlandblb@cs.com

> Don - Thanks for the enlightenment. I
> realize that 5632 was still getting flue
> extensions in the period of the early 60's
> BUT here you had an engine that was already
> overhauled (the 4001) and just sitting
> there. It seems that perhaps the Burlington
> might have said, OK, when the `32 HAS to
> have those heavy repairs, then we use the
> 4001 in her place. Remember that President
> Murphy was still in charge at that time and
> the Q hadn't yet decided to end the steam
> excursion program. The bad thing is that
> 4001 was not an oil burner. That might have
> been the main mark against her and why they
> never considered her for a substitute.

> Sad to hear that O5b 5629 had
> "mechanical problems". There has
> been talk (not serious I think) from time to
> time about restoring her to service. But of
> course there still IS sister 5614 in St.
> Joe. Sure would like to ride behind an O5
> one more time!

> Les Beckman (HVRM)

The 5632 was in the West Burlington Shops getting overhauled when Menk took over as CB&Q President. He was the one who ordered a stop to her overhaul and wrote the death sentence for Q steam trips. Dick Jensen tried to save the 32 but that is a whole other sad story. (Look at Steamlocomotive.com for that story). Also besides the 5614 and 5629 are the 5631 in Sheridan Wy, and the 5633 in Douglas.


dhelec@aol.com

> The 5632 was in the West Burlington Shops
> getting overhauled when Menk took over as
> CB&Q President. He was the one who
> ordered a stop to her overhaul and wrote the
> death sentence for Q steam trips. Dick
> Jensen tried to save the 32 but that is a
> whole other sad story. (Look at
> Steamlocomotive.com for that story). Also
> besides the 5614 and 5629 are the 5631 in
> Sheridan Wy, and the 5633 in Douglas.

Dan- Thanks! It should be noted that 5631 and 5633 are O5a class coal burners.

Les


midlandblb@cs.com

And everywhere, steam fans were wearing buttons that said "Menk is a fink!" Hey, it was the 60's.


glueck@saturn.caps.maine.edu

> Gosh, guys, all thought ALL park engines
> were overhauled, new sheets, tubes, turned
> the tires, etc. BEFORE placing them on
> display.

> Just kidding.

> Maybe there should be a website for
> "Over Hauled" for engines that
> were beaten to death, then run just a little
> more (as per standard, SR practice).

Good points. There were overhauls and there were overhauls. The overhauls done near the end of steam were mostly lick-and-a-promise, with just enough work done to allow the engine to run another year or two. No railroad was going to completely rehab an engine that would not run enough to pay back the investment That is in total contrast to overhauls done in the 1940's, before railroads had decided internally to completely dieselize. Those overhauls were very thorough and extensive.