The SC RR Museum suffered a breakdown this past weekend which got me thinking. Our 1921 eight-wheel side dump car lost a wheel bearing. The car rides on long-wheelbase archbar trucks and we've been thinking about substituting some Bettendorf trucks we have stored at Rion. Trouble is, the bowl on the archbars is 12" diameter while the Bettendorfs have 15" diameter bowls.

I've decided to look around and see if anybody has some Bettendorf, Andrews, or Vulcan trucks with 12" bowls available Better still, does anybody know of any more modern dump cars available? At the moment I'm just exploring possibilities here, going any farther than this will require clearance from people higher in the Museum than me.

The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net

Just interested Matt but wouldn't it be easier to just replace the bad bearing?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Just interested Matt but wouldn't it be
> easier to just replace the bad bearing?

> Dave

We're doing that as a stopgap. Short-term, we're using the old trick of using an oak block until we can find a 4x7 brass (anybody got one lying around?).

Long-beam archbar trucks are notorious for breaking bars. Also, the car we're using right now *is* 80 years old and does have local historic significance -- it was used in the construction of the Lake Murray dam near Columbia, then used by the Rockton & Rion. Losing a bearing has brought the fragility of the poor old thing home to us. You ought to see the poor thing shudder when we dump it.

Ideally I'd like to find a newer dump car we can use instead of this relic. I hate to use something that really ought to be part of the exhibits in work train service.


The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net

Your bentendorfs have a higher weight capacity than the archbars. My guess is the new trucks have 5-1/2x10" bearings and 14" center plateswhich meens a load limit of 100tons. The best solutions whould be to change the center plates on the car body.

Paul

Stuhr Museum
pfdx@aol.com

> Your bentendorfs have a higher weight
> capacity than the archbars. My guess is the
> new trucks have 5-1/2x10" bearings and
> 14" center plateswhich meens a load
> limit of 100tons. The best solutions whould
> be to change the center plates on the car
> body.

Changing the center plates doesn't really appeal to me because we don't have a shop to do heavy work like that in. Also, I hate to make too many drastic changes to the car.

While I can tear down and rebuild a Marx O gauge locomotive pretty competently, when it comes to 12"=1' I have little mechanical experience. I felt pretty good just extracting one of the good bearings from the dumper the other day! One of our members has suggested that the Bettendorf trucks will work under the car despite the difference in bowl size. I'm a bit concerned that having that much slop will cause problems when we go to dump the car. Anybody have more experience?


The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net

Unmatched truck and body castings with that difference would be a big NO-NO, and could be very unsafe. Changing trucks could be a problem depending on the construction differences involving how they fasten the body casting and might be some heavy fab work. And then there is possible height differences to be accounted for. etc. Did anyone check the axle that the bad bearing was on, it could be bad also??


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Unmatched truck and body castings with that
> difference would be a big NO-NO, and could
> be very unsafe. Changing trucks could be a
> problem depending on the construction
> differences involving how they fasten the
> body casting and might be some heavy fab
> work. And then there is possible height
> differences to be accounted for. etc. Did
> anyone check the axle that the bad bearing
> was on, it could be bad also??

C'mon guys; Matt has pointed out that this is an historic car. He would prefer not to alter it but rather to retire and exhibiit it. Let's see if we can't find him a replacement from somewhere. They have got to be out there.

midlandblb@cs.com

> We're doing that as a stopgap. Short-term,
> we're using the old trick of using an oak
> block until we can find a 4x7 brass (anybody
> got one lying around?).

Yes, call Uhrich Locomotive Works in Strasburg CO 303-622-4431, they should have some 4x7 brasses in stock. If not, email me I may have one (out of a narrow gauge car) but I would need your old, fried one to put back in its place.

Jason midyette

amjm@indra.com

> The SC RR Museum suffered a breakdown this
> past weekend which got me thinking. Our 1921
> eight-wheel side dump car lost a wheel
> bearing. The car rides on long-wheelbase
> archbar trucks and we've been thinking about
> substituting some Bettendorf trucks we have
> stored at Rion. Trouble is, the bowl on the
> archbars is 12" diameter while the
> Bettendorfs have 15" diameter bowls.

> I've decided to look around and see if
> anybody has some Bettendorf, Andrews, or
> Vulcan trucks with 12" bowls available
> Better still, does anybody know of any more
> modern dump cars available? At the moment
> I'm just exploring possibilities here, going
> any farther than this will require clearance
> from people higher in the Museum than me.

Matt; Your journal brass was probally originally a 3 3/4x7" which I believe was rated at 20 tons so
you must really have a relic dump car. The truck with the 15" center plate bowl probally has a much higher rating. What size journals does it have? Is the center plate cast integral or is it rivited to the truck bolster?
Jim


rrfanjim@mvn.net

> Your bentendorfs have a higher weight
> capacity than the archbars. My guess is the
> new trucks have 5-1/2x10" bearings and
> 14" center plateswhich meens a load
> limit of 100tons. The best solutions whould
> be to change the center plates on the car
> body.

> Paul

Paul; Your 5 1/2" x 10" journal bearings are AAR
standard for 50 ton cars with a gross rail load
of 169,000 lbs.
50 ton trucks usually had 12" center plates and
70T had 14". I believe there were some designs that used 14" center plates on the 50 ton but I don't remember what kind they were.
Another thing you need to check if you are contemplating a truck change is the side bearing
center to center dimension and heighth. Not to
mention brake hookup etc. It can be done but it could be a bucket of worms.
Jim

rrfanjim@mvn.net

> Paul; Your 5 1/2" x 10" journal
> bearings are AAR
> standard for 50 ton cars with a gross rail
> load
> of 169,000 lbs.
> 50 ton trucks usually had 12" center
> plates and
> 70T had 14". I believe there were some
> designs that used 14" center plates on
> the 50 ton but I don't remember what kind
> they were.
> Another thing you need to check if you are
> contemplating a truck change is the side
> bearing
> center to center dimension and heighth. Not
> to
> mention brake hookup etc. It can be done but
> it could be a bucket of worms.
> Jim

Your right I read the wrong line on the table.



Stuhr Museum
pfdx@aol.com

Simple yet costly solution. Take one of the good brasses out of the car, take it to a shop which makes castings and have a couple reproduced and machined.

johnathon_kruger@hotmail.com

> Simple yet costly solution. Take one of the
> good brasses out of the car, take it to a
> shop which makes castings and have a couple
> reproduced and machined.

If the brass isn't damaged all that needs to be replaced is the babbit. The brass could be cleaned up and new babbit poured to it. Probally
would be a good idea to tin the inside of the brass first to make sure the babbit got a good grip. You're on your own on making the mold but
it would have to be slick so the babbit surface next to the journal will end up smooth. Probally
would be some trimming to do at the ends. Look at a good one so you know what you are trying for.
You would probally want to pour it vertically
from the outside end with your mold arranged to form the curve on the inside end.
On my Uncle's old Case we rebabbited the rod end
by putting the babbit in a ladle and pouring oil over it and then setting the oil on fire. We took
the rod and crank pin off. Then set the rod horizontally with the crank pin centered vertically in the rod hole so we could pour the babbit around it.
I believe something like that would solve your problem.
If I can help get back to me. Jim


rrfanjim@mvn.net

> Simple yet costly solution. Take one of the
> good brasses out of the car, take it to a
> shop which makes castings and have a couple
> reproduced and machined.

This is a PS; Someone has already said it but
be sure to check the axle journal surface for damage. Also, if you try to pour the babbit a little pre heating of the brass and the mould
might help.
Jim


rrfanjim@mvn.net

> Not to mention brake hookup etc. It can be done
> but it could be a bucket of worms.
> Jim

Brakes are not a problem on this car -- there ain't none! Another reason I'd *really* like to completely replace the car with something newer. We're using it right now because it's what we've got to do the digging in the cut.

(We've been running the car with the frame chained to the frame of our 11-ton White Switchmaster to prevent a runaway)


The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@compuzone.net