moving Southern 1401

Andrew Durden · **Posted:** Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:39 pm

Doug,

I didn't realize how large the P-8's were until I saw the one that is on loan to CSRM (2467?). When standing next to it, I realized that it was ALMOST as large as A&WP 290. 290 is slightly larger than a Ps4.

Andrew Durden
SRM

southern154 · **Joined:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:54 pm **Posts:** 320

Newriver400 wrote:

"No other SR steam locos were saved purposefully."

NOT true...

Southern purposefully saved 1509 in Atlanta (Pegram Shop/North Ave. roundhouse goat, see http://www.srmduluth.org/photos/maud2.jpg) and 154 in Knoxville (see http://www.southern154.com). The 542 was put on display at Tanglewood Park after being purchased by Forsyth County from Southern. The others were indeed saved by being sold second-hand to shortlines or industries.

They are: 107, 385, 401, 630, 722, 1643, and THE Famous (that's 4501 to those of you in Rio Linda), and then there's the alleged 2-6-0 in Castro-land.

The 5288 may get a nice Southern dress and makeover, but that will not make her a Ps-anything. Size-wise, she is a bit smaller than a Ps4 and somewhat larger than a Ps2. If anything, she might get classed Ps6 (Southern did have some P5's as I recall).

what do you mean the alleged 2-6--0 in castro-land, any information would be great.
Thanks

Rick Rowlands · **Posted:** Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:12 pm

Can't we have just one steam locomotive entombed in a climate controlled environment as a time capsule of the way locomotives looked in the 1960s? Nothing on this loco has been touched since that time; there are no compromises made so that it can run in today's environment and even all the fasteners are from that era. Its nice to run the locos but lets keep a couple in pristine shape as historical artifacts please!

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

southern154 wrote:

Newriver400 wrote:

"No other SR steam locos were saved purposefully."

NOT true...

Southern purposefully saved 1509 in Atlanta (Pegram Shop/North Ave. roundhouse goat, see http://www.srmduluth.org/photos/maud2.jpg) and 154 in Knoxville (see http://www.southern154.com). The 542 was put on display at Tanglewood Park after being purchased by Forsyth County from Southern. The others were indeed saved by being sold second-hand to shortlines or industries.

They are: 107, 385, 401, 630, 722, 1643, and THE Famous (that's 4501 to those of you in Rio Linda), and then there's the alleged 2-6-0 in Castro-land.

The 5288 may get a nice Southern dress and makeover, but that will not make her a Ps-anything. Size-wise, she is a bit smaller than a Ps4 and somewhat larger than a Ps2. If anything, she might get classed Ps6 (Southern did have some P5's as I recall).

what do you mean the alleged 2-6--0 in castro-land, any information would be great.
Thanks

Here's the information as reported in Adolf Hungry Wolf's "Trains of Cuba" booklet published back in 1996 and also Richard E. Prince's G&F roster in his book on the Central of Georgia Railway:

Built by Cooke (s/n 2114) in 1891 as Evansville & Terre Haute number 50. Then Louisville, Evansville & St. Louis #2100, Southern #2100, Augusta Southern #21, Georgia & Florida #21 and finally to Cuba as La Paz Sugar Company number 4 in 1917. In 1996, she was supposedly being rebuilt. Don't know if that effort was ever completed, nor what her current status is in Cuba. Not sure how long she was a Southern Railway locomotive, but the Augusta Southern acquired her in 1912.

Les

Tavor · **Joined:** Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:32 pm **Posts:** 200

Les Beckman wrote:

southern154 wrote:

Newriver400 wrote:

"No other SR steam locos were saved purposefully."

NOT true...

Southern purposefully saved 1509 in Atlanta (Pegram Shop/North Ave. roundhouse goat, see http://www.srmduluth.org/photos/maud2.jpg) and 154 in Knoxville (see http://www.southern154.com). The 542 was put on display at Tanglewood Park after being purchased by Forsyth County from Southern. The others were indeed saved by being sold second-hand to shortlines or industries.

They are: 107, 385, 401, 630, 722, 1643, and THE Famous (that's 4501 to those of you in Rio Linda), and then there's the alleged 2-6-0 in Castro-land.

The 5288 may get a nice Southern dress and makeover, but that will not make her a Ps-anything. Size-wise, she is a bit smaller than a Ps4 and somewhat larger than a Ps2. If anything, she might get classed Ps6 (Southern did have some P5's as I recall).

what do you mean the alleged 2-6--0 in castro-land, any information would be great.
Thanks

Here's the information as reported in Adolf Hungry Wolf's "Trains of Cuba" booklet published back in 1996 and also Richard E. Prince's G&F roster in his book on the Central of Georgia Railway:

Built by Cooke (s/n 2114) in 1891 as Evansville & Terre Haute number 50. Then Louisville, Evansville & St. Louis #2100, Southern #2100, Augusta Southern #21, Georgia & Florida #21 and finally to Cuba as La Paz Sugar Company number 4 in 1917. In 1996, she was supposedly being rebuilt. Don't know if that effort was ever completed, nor what her current status is in Cuba. Not sure how long she was a Southern Railway locomotive, but the Augusta Southern acquired her in 1912.

Les

And here she is, (according to SteamLocomotive.info) on display in a park in Havana:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/ima ... 1413-3.jpg
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/ima ... 1413-2.jpg
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/ima ... ba1413.jpg

jasonsobczynski · **Posted:** Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:36 am

Hot Metal wrote:

Can't we have just one steam locomotive entombed in a climate controlled environment as a time capsule of the way locomotives looked in the 1960s? Nothing on this loco has been touched since that time; there are no compromises made so that it can run in today's environment and even all the fasteners are from that era. Its nice to run the locos but lets keep a couple in pristine shape as historical artifacts please!

So, there are nominally 1,700 (excluding new construction, cagney's, other grand scale locos listed) steam locomotives existent in the U.S.. Of those we have about 125ish operating or about 7%. Of those maybe about 12 have received "compromises" of one form or another. Those 12 represent about 10% of the regularly operating locomotives (there are far more than 125 operable but they operate infrequently) and only .7% of the existent locomotives.

I don't think we're modernizing quite to many locomotives just yet.

Cheers, Jason

Rick Rowlands · **Posted:** Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:30 am

How many of those 1,700 are in climate controlled environments where the effects of corrosion are not felt? The vast majority lose metal every year because they are exposed to the elements, and many that are now under cover experienced damage in the years leading up to their placement under cover. There are very few large locomotives in excellent preserved condition including the 1401, SP cab forward, BLW 60,000, etc.

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

Tavor wrote:

Les Beckman wrote:

Here's the information as reported in Adolf Hungry Wolf's "Trains of Cuba" booklet published back in 1996 and also Richard E. Prince's G&F roster in his book on the Central of Georgia Railway:

Built by Cooke (s/n 2114) in 1891 as Evansville & Terre Haute number 50. Then Louisville, Evansville & St. Louis #2100, Southern #2100, Augusta Southern #21, Georgia & Florida #21 and finally to Cuba as La Paz Sugar Company number 4 in 1917. In 1996, she was supposedly being rebuilt. Don't know if that effort was ever completed, nor what her current status is in Cuba. Not sure how long she was a Southern Railway locomotive, but the Augusta Southern acquired her in 1912.

Les

And here she is, (according to SteamLocomotive.info) on display in a park in Havana:
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/ima ... 1413-3.jpg
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/ima ... 1413-2.jpg
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/ima ... ba1413.jpg

Wonder if the Mogul might not be considered for bringing back to the U.S.A.? Are not our relations with Cuba better now so that a historic move such as this might be a possibility? The North Carolina Transportation Museum at Spencer would seem like a logical destination for the old girl.

Les

Dave · **Posted:** Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:07 pm

Ask that question in Miami, Les.........while wearing armor.

If some miraculous political changes would occur, perhaps it could be considered, but Cuba has been selling their steam as a tourist attraction to British and other organized tour groups for some time now. They might not want to lose it.......

Spencer perhaps; but I see a more southern midwestern / Georgia state history of operating heritage.

dave

jasonsobczynski · **Posted:** Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:34 pm

Hot Metal wrote:

How many of those 1,700 are in climate controlled environments where the effects of corrosion are not felt? The vast majority lose metal every year because they are exposed to the elements, and many that are now under cover experienced damage in the years leading up to their placement under cover. There are very few large locomotives in excellent preserved condition including the 1401, SP cab forward, BLW 60,000, etc.

My response was to the original wording of your post, it mentioned nothing of climate controlled. I would have not been motivated to add comments if it had. You also forgot to mention all of the loki's in the Henry Ford museum.

Cheers

HudsonL · **Joined:** Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am **Posts:** 548

Isn't there a legal requirement that any steam locomotive that does not have a fire in it's firebox and water in it's boiler, much be half dissembled with it's parts spread out all over the cornfield so that it can rust away in peace?

And I think there is a corollary about heavyweight passenger cars and rotten roofs.

-Hudson

P.S. diving for the bunker.

etalcos · **Posted:** Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:23 pm

HudsonL wrote:

Isn't there a legal requirement that any steam locomotive that does not have a fire in it's firebox and water in it's boiler, much be half dissembled with it's parts spread out all over the cornfield so that it can rust away in peace?

And I think there is a corollary about heavyweight passenger cars and rotten roofs.

-Hudson

P.S. diving for the bunker.

Sarcasm? Humor??? Hope your bunker is deep and well provisioned. Sadly you left out the part about $3.5 million and nine months.

...and yes I thought your post was funny, but then what do I know.

ETA

P.S. I almost forgot -- will the new "Lubritorium" in Roanoke be climate controlled? God forbid the Southern tea kettle have AC and the N&W not.

Mike Shirk · **Posted:** Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:34 pm

http://io9.com/behold-the-rusting-beauty-of-abandoned-train-graveyards-668788155

Scroll about 1/2 way down the page.

Don't know if this is the same place where 2-6-0 #50 is?

jasonsobczynski · **Posted:** Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:48 pm

etalcos wrote:

Sarcasm? Humor??? Hope your bunker is deep and well provisioned. Sadly you left out the part about $3.5 million and nine months.

...and yes I thought your post was funny, but then what do I know.

ETA

P.S. I almost forgot -- will the new "Lubritorium" in Roanoke be climate controlled? God forbid the Southern tea kettle have AC and the N&W not.

And Sarcasm Does abound! lol

While I have heard rumor that the Roanoke facility will have HVAC (can't understand how the cost to cool would be financially feasible or necessary since the loki will still be exhibited outdoors and thus just don't believe it) it would NOT be done to keep up with anything in the southeast. Check out the shop where the "kettle" is kept, it is by no means air conditioned.

Cheers, Jason

Gary Gray · **Posted:** Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:03 pm

Jason, You've been here and seen what facilities we work with. Climate controlled means a roof, fans, and indoor plumbing...... :)