One of the problems with most "mainline" electrics is the supply voltage. IRM appears to be able to run IC Electric and South Shore cars on 600 volt trolley wire (perhaps someone from IRM can tell us what kind of modifications are necessary). Milwaukee and Lackawanna used 3000 volts--that's more of a challenge. Then we have PRR/Reading/New Haven which, as I recall, use 25 Hz, 12,000 volt AC. It's highly unlikely that a museum would have the resources to install Pennsy-style electrification. As far as I know, the "Big Three" trolley museums in New England have railways more suited for streetcars and rapid transit cars than for heavy "steam road" equipment. All their cars have been trucked in; they have no rail access to the national system. When I was at Seashore for "Rapid Transit Day" a couple of years ago, I think they had to give all the other cars a "rest" when the New York subway train was running, i.e. the substation was maxed out. We should also consider the point of view of non-railfans. Streetcars have a much higher coefficient of nostalgia than electric locomotives. Other than the GG-1s and the "Little Joes", "juice jacks" tend to range from utilitarian to downright ugly. I happen to like Pacific Electric freight motors because they were part of my childhood and the one that survives in running condition was built in Southern Calif. (a little native pride there!), but a Santa Fe "Warbonnet" it is not. It's sometimes hard to swallow, especially if your favorite machine becomes extinct, but museums and tourist roads often have to think about what appeals to potential visitors, and an NYC S-motor or a PRR E-44 is probably rather far down on the list.

Since this thread has been hijacked (I thought it was about preserving an SD40-2), I'll offer my comments on heavy electric preservation. In addition to the power requirements for operating electric locomotives and MU cars, who among the preservation community has the infrastructure to support overhead catenary for pantograph operation? To the best of my knowledge, all that exists out there is infrastructure for trolley wire/trolley pole style operation. Who among us has the financial resources to build such an infrastructure, in terms of both the overhead system as well as the power that's required for operation?

This is why heavy electric equipment will only ever be preserved for static display.

To try and pull this thread back into focus, with regards to preserving modern era equipment, I applaud the RRMPA for saving an Amtrak E60. I wonder who among us will step up to the plate to save a Metro North M2 EMU (pending retirement starting next year) or some day an Amtrak AEM7?

The Amtrak E60 was a downright no-brainer for the RR Museum of Pa.: Built in Erie and operated in Pennsylbania, part of the first generation of Amtrak power.

Actually, next on the list, and I'm sorry to be putting the screws on Brother Paulson at such a tragic time: a matched pair of original Rohr 1000-series Washington Metro cars, now specifically targeted for extinction by WMATA and the NTSB in the wake of Monday's tragic collision near Takoma Park?

I believe the major modifications needed were a change to the control resistance, and a different air compressor armature.

Jeff

Both IC and CSS&SB cars were equipped with 1500v motors but had low-voltage (32v, I think) control systems fed by batteries which were, in turn, charged by an MG set. On the IC, the railroad had a small number of cars which were equipped with compound-wound MG sets that were capable of charging the batteries from either 1500v or 600v. I have no idea what the original purpose of this was, but when IRM acquired our IC MU set we made sure to get one of these MG sets. We also replaced the 1500v pump with a 600v version. Hence, the motors run at about half speed but the control system, ancillaries like lights (also fed off the batteries) and the pump work just fine. The South Shore cars never had compound-wound MG's so the CSS car charges the batteries off the air compressor, like CTA 4000's do. This system doesn't work all that well and one current plan is to install either North Shore-style charging resistors or to put in some kind of "black box" to charge the batteries off of the 600v line voltage.



The New Haven passenger motors, though, could run off of either high-voltage AC or 600v DC for operation into Grand Central. It's really a shame that none were preserved; just by swapping a few leads between the shoes and the pans, IRM would theoretically have the capacity to operate an EP-3 or EP-4 today!

Well, hold on. I can think of three major factors; and let's talk about each.

First: Is your trolley wire pantograph-compatible? That's not a major cost factor at time of construction, but annoying to retrofit. Your pull-offs need to reach far enough to clear a pantograph horn instead of a trolley wheel, so you are using different pull-offs (or turning them upside down). At least 3 or 4 museums have wire that's been constructed this way.

The light-rail revival of the 1980s is all pantographs, so I hope museums planning to preserve those cars are hanging wire correctly now.

Second: Can your power company deliver the amount of power required? Alternately -- can you reduce the power draw? After all, in museum operation you will never have call to open the throttle wide.

Third: Can you carry high voltage AC on your trolley wire? This is daunting. It requires a MUCH higher level of insulation, and thus, complete reconstruction of the trolley wire. I don't see that happening at a museum, ever. More likely I see the locomotive adapted for low-voltage DC as its current draw is reduced.



Actually I think an EMU is a great example of a car that would be workable to adapt to low-voltage because of its comparatively low current draw (as compared to a locomotive).

Right now, power electronics are changing rapidly. Look where they were 20 years ago, and then 10 years ago. Using electronic black-box solutions is becoming more practical by the day. I could even foresee a trolley museum energizing wire at 1500V, then equipping the cars that need it with 1500-600 converters.

A friendly reminder: Pantographs are much less tolerant than trolley poles of less than perfect trolley wire! Also, as a professional designer of trolley pole/pantograph trolley wire systems, they are not that simple to design, install and maintain. In fact, they are the proverbial pain in the neck. Not ony is the hardware different, but the wire has to be located differently.

Pardon me for spilling the beans, but all three U.S. museums that operate cars with pantographs, including the two represented by writers of previous posts, have had incidents where pantographs have been demolished or wire torn down.

Another point: The line car mentioned above now has a "black box" (actually gray) static inverter to provide low voltage. It replaced a noisy, bulky MG set that was installed relatively late in the car's pre-museum career, probably to replace a "Michael J. Rodent" battery charging hookup with the air compressor. It has worked vey well. Actually, as it provides an instantly on, well regulated source of low voltage, the battery could actually be eliminated. However, a battery is still required if it is important that emergency interior and/or marker lights remain on after a power failure or dewirement. We are planning to use inverters to replace compressor hookup battery charging circuits in other cars as they are restored.

Temporarily un-hijacking the thread here.

More images here: http://www.irm.org/gallery/CNW-6847

Jeff

The regularly scheduled thread about MU motor/trailer car sets and preserving common everyday type equipment may now resume (it makes quite interesting reading)

I don't think I've seen this question asked yet so here goes; what condition is the locomotive in mechanically? Does it run or does it need major work?

Per the UP maintenance reports, she should be in running condition. She was stored in Texas in December 2008, due to a downturn in traffic. I gave her a quick "once over" yesterday, and other than missing 3 of her 4 class lights (parts in stock at IRM to replace), she looks VERY good. We are planning on having her operational by Diesel Weekend, July 18th and 19th.

Jeff

6874 was started at 2:15 AM this morning, and all appears well.

Jeff