http://railswap.org/cb/cl/classifieds.c ... =retrieval

This rare Westinghouse 'Oil Electric' is available. It would seem to me to be a valuable addition for the RRMofPA to help tell the complete story of railroading in PA. In may be available to them for the cost of transportation. Are they aware?

I've been told, in the past, the the RR Museum of Pa. and its officials are officially banned from taking any official position on acquisitive matters. It would be up to the Friends of the RR Museum of Pa. to pursue this locomotive, or any other such rolling stock or ephemera, with the possible curatorial guidance of the Museum's curators.

But just in case anyone is keeping track, this particular loco is one of 11 built between 1929 and 1937 with a variety of engine configurations. The loco in this ad was Armco B-71, with a 300-hp 8 1/4 x 12 engine, built ca. 1930; it was later acquired by (I think) a Michigan chapter of the NRHS and displayed at Lake Superior from 1982 on.

The Arden Trolley Museum in Pa. has sister loco Great Lakes Steel 1, returned to Westinghouse and then resold to Armco in 1942, mechanically identical at least originally. So although this loco DOES have necessary Pennsylvania provenance (built in south Philadelphia, not Pittsburgh), there just happens to be another one closer to home in pretty safe hands............

More info: Dec. 1969 Trains Magazine, pp. 28-43.

Sandy,
Thanks for the further information. That's a great Trains article, one of my favorites. I have it in both hard copy and PDF on my computer. I knew that Arden Trolley Museum had a similiar model which I have seen at their museum. I still think that this one would make for an intersting and important addition precisely because the RRMofPA is trying to tell a comprehensive story of Railroading in PA in one location. You would know far better than I, but I don't believe they have a representative model from Westinghouse in their collection.

Over time, I would love to see them acquire representative models from all the loco manufactures which exist and have existed in PA. Does any other state have as great a number of loco manufacturers in its history?

In addition this unit would help to tell the story of early diesel locomotive development, way back when they were still 'oil electrics'.

I'm only guessing, but I think that many of the people who make it to the RRMofPA probably have never been to nor will ever be at the Arden Trolley Museum since it quite a few hours west of the RRMofPA.

As always, this is a matter of dollars of which I am woefully short these days myself:)

And as always, your posts are most informative. Thanks.

While touring the former Hillsdale County Railroad in southern Michigan around 1977, a friend and I came across this engine on a siding in Jonesville, Michigan, along with the burned remains of the ex-CGW 1934 Hiawatha coaches that had been owned by the Michigan Railroad Club. (Nothing burns like a Milwaukee Road car.) I gathered that this was a failed railroad museum of some kind. A few years later the same friend took me on a tour of the nether regions of St. Paul, and showed me the same engine in a scrapyard there. I presume it is at MTM's Jackson Street roundhouse now, and not in Duluth. This is a pretty significant engine, and it would be nice to see it saved. Sounds like the sort of thing they'd like in Union . . .

Aarne Frobom
Distillate City, Michigan

The B-71 doesn't have its original Beardmore/Westinghouse Diesel. It was replaced with a six cylinder inline Hamilton prior to its arrival at the C&LC, which is where I was introduced to it. This has a smaller bore and stroke than the six cylinder Hamilton used in the Lima 750 hp ex-CUT switch engine that was on the C&LC and survives on the Whitewater Valley RR. The B-71 was last operated in common carrier service in 1973, possibly the last Westinghouse in that service. Major job to restore to service. All traction motors were "birdnested" while in transit on the MILW and all six cylinder liners had cavitation water leaks into the cylinder bores when I helped put the unit back into service in 1971. Anyone interested in further details about the unit's condition is welcome to contact me off list. Unusual for a 1930 Diesel to still exist.

Please note that I'm not actively DIScouraging anyone from attempting to get this loco for the RR Museum of Pa. I'm one of the ones that constantly advocates for its expansion away from the Museum of the PRR" that many seem to think it is. It'd be a restoration hassle, but definitely fits as a Pennsylvania-built diesel, though many would argue a GE 44-tonner is a more natural fit for the category, as opposed to an off-beat, almost-one-off.

Sandy,
I for one know that is true of you. And why not both units being represented? I know: $$$. However, I might take minor exception to your catagorization of this unit as simply off-beat, almost one-off unit.

Its value is in telling the early history of the Diesel Loco development, not in its wide spread acceptance by the railroad industry. During those early pioneering days, no one sold units in large numbers like later models. I do agree that is would be nice to have a GE 44T. How about Strasburg Railroad donate theirs?

The locomotive is indeed at the Minnesota Transportation Museum's Jackson Street roundhouse in St. Paul. A photo and some fairly comprehensive information is available on the museum's website at:

http://www.mtmuseum.org/jsr/roster/armcoB71.php

[strums fingers repeatedly]

Have we not had far more than enough discussion on this forum about telling other people what to do with their assets? Or, more accurately, NOT doing so?

Then what would we talk about?

Since Strasburg has retired their 44 tonner, and since it is original, it would make a great loco to display at the museum. It fills a void in the museum's collection, and is now surplus to Strasburg's operation. Sounds to me like a match made in heaven.

Sandy, I really meant it in a much more light hearted fashion than you took it. And really, does anyone really take my remark to be "telling other people what to do with their assets"? If I was telling someone what to do with their equipment, it would sound like this: Strasburg really needs to donate their equipment to the RRMofPA. Can you hear the difference? My remark was one made in the course of discussion, not telling anyone what to do. :)

True that, and sorry for reacting reflexively, but as we're seeing with a thread on DL&W 952, what starts as a "wouldn't it be nice?" fantasy can often quickly mutate into something FAR more unproductive and idiotic. And the age of Internet forums and anonymous comments makes it all the easier in the 21st century.

All internet communication can be difficult at times because we are left with so few clues with which to determine another person's intentions, whether a chat site, a blog site, texting or email. So any confusion is certainly understandable. I stand with you in believing we shouldn't tell others what to do with their private property. And no doubt it can get rather annoying to someone like Strasburg who probably have a never ending stream of 'suggestions' for how they can do a better job. No offense taken. Maybe we should require people post one of those emotional smiley faces so we can see how serious they are? Just kidding:)

Alex Huff I PMed you with a couple questions about the locomotive.

I've seen it claimed that sister engine B-73 at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum is the oldest operable diesel in the US. Is that true?

The several mentions of "Arden Trolley Museum" prompts me to advise that this organization and facility (Washington, PA) has been "Pennsylvania Trolley Museum" since the early 1990s. Old names die slowly since they appear in print, and we all know that everything in print is gospel, right?

We do indeed have ex-Armco Steel B-73 in operating condition at PTM. We claim it to be one of the oldest (June 1930) operable diesels in the USA, if not the oldest. Any other claims for that title?

We hope that ex-Armco B-71 does find a new home, but advise that it won't be at PTM. Aside from B-73 we also have a 1943 Porter 43 ton center cab and a 1953 GE 25 tonner. This GE is being converted to 62.5" gauge for use as the museum's utility loco on the broad gauge trolley system.

We're not looking for more diesels because the trolley system is the heart of PTM and has many, many projects under way. See www.pa-trolley.org for details.