Sandberg Supposedly Speaks

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:28 pm

Reposted from TrainOrders.com at:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... 10,2135976

Quote:

I attended Gopher Rail 2010 at the University Of Minnesota Model Railroad Club today. Steve Sandberg was one of the speakers lined up. Steve spoke for nearly an hour about steam railroading, potential new steam locomotives to restore, others that probably won't be restored anytime soon, the classic passenger cars available for lease, and trips they will take.

As for the 261, a businessman from California has a signed letter to buy the 261 from NRM in Green Bay. No money has changed hands. The sale is on only if the businessman can lease the locomotive to Sandberg & company. This businessman isn't a railroader, and seems to have a lot to learn about railroading from what I heard. I came away with the impression he may just be looking to make money by leasing the 261. Steve made it clear he wouldn't accept the same terms NRM wanted for renewing the lease that just ended. I don't blame him.

He did mention talks have taken place with La Crosse, WI about CB&Q 4000. He ruled out any of the remaining CB&Q 4-8-4s due to location issues, and the expense of moving one.

There probably won't be a mainline steam locomotive operating in or through the Twin Cities this year. NKP 765 is having roller bearings installed on it's tender.

The Railroading Heritage of Midwest America (formerly Friends Of The 261) will be offering rides on what will probably be diesel powered trips north and south. Minneapolis towards Duluth, and Minneapolis towards La Crescent. This will be during the fall color season here in Minnesota. Trips with the famous Super Dome, and Skytops Lounge car Cedar Rapids, are available between Minneapolis and Chicago on several dates. They'll bring up the markers on Amtrak's Empire Builder.

Steve also mentioned some EMD E units, and the challenges faced by owners. Apparently no company makes the correct sized wheels for E units anymore. Washington Corp (Montana Rail Link) owns a Milwaukee Road E unit that is currently stored in Livingston, MT. He also mentioned LTV's EMD F units for sale in Northern Minnesota. These need a lot of work to be moved.

One last thing mentioned was the change of management at NRM this past week. Nobody knows what this will mean. The director who just resigned didn't seem to be very railroad knowledgeable going into the NRM from what I have heard. Perhaps a change there could change things with the 261.

So what did I get out of all this. Anything is possible. Don't bet on a larger steam locomotive being restored. Some diesels may be acquired. And it probably isn't over for the 261 just yet.

Anyone who knows me personally knows I am pulling for the 261. But whatever happens, life is good. Steve deserves our support with memberships, and ticket purchases. I am hoping to ride the Skytops this year on a trip.

Al Seever
Minneapolis, MN

Wowak · **Posted:** Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:52 am

The 4000 was my uneducated guess.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

The only thing I could say is Sandberg have a talk with the potential new owner and if the right thing happens have a legal and binding contract. If the deal falls through, where would the engine go?

At this point since NRM wants to sell the engine I would not want to see it returned to NRM. To me the better idea is have a donation fund to give to Steve so he can buy the engine, or some kind of consortium of investors (who know their stuff of railroading) and buy the engine, or some kind of group fund the public can put money into so Steve can buy the engine or control its use.

Ron Travis · **Joined:** Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm **Posts:** 1543

I expect, as I predicted in the other thread, that the Sandberg group will either lease the engine from the new buyer, or buy it themselves.

Considering the new boiler work at $700,000 + purchase price at $225,000 = $925,000, is there any other locomotive available that could be purchased and put into operation for under $925,000 ?

Dave · **Posted:** Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:23 pm

3 QJs. With spare parts.

dave

filmteknik · **Posted:** Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:52 pm

Seeing Big Alice in steam would be awesome.

dinwitty · **Joined:** Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm **Posts:** 2226

Ron Travis wrote:

I expect, as I predicted in the other thread, that the Sandberg group will either lease the engine from the new buyer, or buy it themselves.

Considering the new boiler work at $700,000 + purchase price at $225,000 = $925,000, is there any other locomotive available that could be purchased and put into operation for under $925,000 ?

765 leased from the City of Ft Wayne for one dollar.

I think it was a 25 year deal, and well, maybe that was extended, NE1 with details on that?

Ron Travis · **Joined:** Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm **Posts:** 1543

Well you can't beat that lease price, but what did it cost to put the engine into operation?

nathansixchime · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm **Posts:** 948

dinwitty wrote:

765 leased from the City of Ft Wayne for one dollar.

I think it was a 25 year deal, and well, maybe that was extended, NE1 with details on that?

The lease no longer exists. We have owned the 765 for many years now and look forward to running this year after our roller bearing upgrade is completed.

Les Beckman · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm **Posts:** 6482

nathansixchime wrote:

dinwitty wrote:

765 leased from the City of Ft Wayne for one dollar.

I think it was a 25 year deal, and well, maybe that was extended, NE1 with details on that?

The lease no longer exists. We have owned the 765 for many years now and look forward to running this year after our roller bearing upgrade is completed.

Kelly -

Does the FtWRRHS also now own outright the LE&FtW (ex-Wabash) 0-6-0?

Les

James Kosel · **Posted:** Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:24 pm

I was hoping for some bigger news than this.....sounds like everything is still up in the air.

I have nothing but good things to say about the friends of the 261 and I support them 100%; however, one bit of advice I wish to give them would be that they update their website more often. Last summer was the last update. The site puts out very little information on what's going on and their forum is as dead as a door nail. Last post was over a week ago.

I was considering a financial contribution to the group and perhaps become a member. With the situation always being so uncertain and the news so little and far in between, I'm beginning to get discouraged and wonder if they are truly dedicated to their mission. It seems to me they are not interested in expanding their membership. There may be many others like me who want to contribute and become more involved but are hesitant as well.

I don't mean to be negative but there is clearly a few aspects of the organization that could use some improvement.

Kevin Gilliam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm **Posts:** 292

Dave wrote:

3 QJs. With spare parts.

dave

QJs are big, impressive engines, but they are essentially a 1920s design with a bunch of counterbalancing issues (ie you wouldn't want to run one at 60-70mph) dressed up in 1980s packaging. It's not your best bet for someone trying to run mainline excursions.

Something that is roller-bearing equipped and has many of the other later modern design features would be much more preferable. There are enough issues to overcome when trying to run mainline excursions--you don't want to make things more problematic than they already are.

JohnHillier · **Posted:** Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:06 pm

Doesn't the 611 have roller bearings? I bet it can go 60 MPH too.

Kevin Gilliam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm **Posts:** 292

JohnHillier wrote:

Doesn't the 611 have roller bearings? I bet it can go 60 MPH too.

yes, and yes. Very modern engine with basically all the bells and whistles of late steam era design, and Hopewell Productions has video of it cruising at about 75mph through Indiana in 1983. Convincing the city of Roanoke to let someone lease it (and operate it far from Virginia) and convincing NS to move it might be issues however.

Dave · **Posted:** Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:33 am

Kevin Gilliam wrote:

Dave wrote:

3 QJs. With spare parts.

dave

QJs are big, impressive engines, but they are essentially a 1920s design with a bunch of counterbalancing issues (ie you wouldn't want to run one at 60-70mph) dressed up in 1980s packaging. It's not your best bet for someone trying to run mainline excursions.

Something that is roller-bearing equipped and has many of the other later modern design features would be much more preferable. There are enough issues to overcome when trying to run mainline excursions--you don't want to make things more problematic than they already are.

You are right on all counts, Kevin, just answering a question within its parameters and providing some perspective on value and perceived value.

Nobody has stated what the business model might be for whatever the new generation of the organization decides it wants to do, just assumes it will be the same with another bit of hardware. I would hope they would take this opportunity to reinvent themselves to whatever extent they find might help them eliminate the more troublesome aspects of their previous operation, whatever they may have been, and become stronger in the process.

dave