I must congratulate you on having a very vivid imagination, and being able to reach such bold conclusions without needing to call upon any of the vast contemporary knowledge about this issue. NARCOA (and before them, MCCA) are two officially sanctioned bodies whose business is organizing and certifying motor car meets; although they are not nominally for the public, their members have been known to carry the public. They have strict safety rules for operations and maintenance (and design on new cars).

Several museums, not least the Southern Michigan Railroad Society, have operated speeder rides for the general public. SMRS did this for at least five years in the 1980s. At the peak of SMRS operation, they were running TWO speeder trains of 3-4 cars each, doing 30 or 45 minute one-ways between two towns 4.5 miles apart (Clinton and Tecumseh.) Between 5 and 7 round trips a day, so we're talking 500-700 one way trips a year.

There's more. The two trains met at a siding in the middle. Ducking in and out of siding required recrossing a 55 mph rural road. Seven round trips a day, 6 meets.

And more. One month a year, they took the speeder trains south of Tecumseh. The Class-1 county road crossing at Sutton Road (follow along in Google Earth) was paved over, with a crown over the road. The speeder trains arrived at Sutton Road, they offloaded all passengers. The trains were then driven over the crossing without passengers, while volunteers used pry bars and claws to "steer" them so they'd land on the rails on the other side. Passengers reboarded and continued. This happened 4 weekends a year, 4 round trips a day, Saturday and Sunday for either 2 or 3 years (I don't recall) before the crossing got fixed.

This was before NARCOA got all formal with the safety rules, but SMRS did a good job.

Many other fledgeling operations have done the same. If you're landlocked and just boot-strapping your operation, it's a great way to get started and get some revenue flowing in and get some public exposure. Though as far as I know, none had the sophistication of SMRS, at one time fielding six working A-5 gang cars, two A-8s, several nonworking cars as trailers, and running speeder trains as long as 5 cars.

I guess you could say ignorance is bliss, because, being quite unaware of these prognostications of foolhardiness, SMRS plumb forgot to have any accidents... *smile*

You are right about the danger of mixing a drunk/reckless showoff and a speeder. The stories are legendary. There have been fatalities, and stories much worse than this one, but this is my favorite. The Adirondack Railroad, 1983, the line had been reopened for the Olympics but now lay in good shape but unused. It was a very popular place to "bandit run". One guy was out there with a Kalamazoo, a commercially built mid-size ~1200 pound speeder. The other guy was on a "flying shingle", a shabbily constructed homebrew job, strap a Tecumseh engine on a larry flat, the seat is the beer cooler, that kind of thing. Anyway these two cars met head-on at speed. This is in an age before cell phones or PLB/EPIRB's. The upshot is that the less injured people had to painfully hike out some tens of miles to get help for the more injured, who got to lay in screaming pain for 8 hours until the medevac helicopter arrived.

The thing you're not factoring for, is that when a volunteer organization carries the public in speeders, safety is foremost on their mind, and that makes all the difference in the world. Operators are acutely aware of the horror stories. For instance, SMRS took flagging crossings very seriously. Speeder operators were the definition of "sane speeds" (and frankly, the practical limits of safe speed had been well tested *grin* and trains for the public never got near it.) Maintenance was tip-top. That's what you do, because if speeders is all you have, then a speeder accident ends the museum and scraps the rail line. And the whole point of being out there is the opposite of that.

So -- doable? Yes. Insurable? Yup, did it. Recommended for some outfits? Absolutely. It's a great way to bootstrap and get revenue coming in.

We ran motorcar rides at VMT (at their request) for the National Train Day activities on May 8th. Used 2 small Fairmonts & 1 large Fairmont with a trailer. The trackage (about 1/4 mile long) is VMT owned, so we were covered by their insurance. We had no problems other than the usual fouled plugs and smoking drive belts. All of the passengers were well behaved. Ridership was in the multiple hundreds. Based on verbal reports, it was the second most popular event for the weekend, right behind cab tours of the idling NS SD70BigMac (or whatever that thing was, the newest diesel I can identify is an SD40-2). The rides were successful enough that there is talk of possibly upgrading next year to a couple of cabeese and an Alco or other locomotive. Properly staffed and operated, I can't see that motorcars are any more or less dangerous than any other form of historic rail equipment.

I can verify what Gary said. I was there too, and had fun riding the motor car trailer. ;) I hope that more stuff like this will go on at the VMT. Thanks to the Roanoke Chapter for pulling this off.

Martin

Hmm, I'm not exactly sure "upgrade" is the word I'd use there.

First, speeders are a unique experience your competitor doesn't offer.

Second, they work really well for short runs like your 1/4 mile, in terms of passenger expectation.

Third, they're really easy on track, so you can quickly hustle otherwise marginal track into service (long as the gage is good).

Fourth, as you know they're dirt cheap to operate. Which means it's viable to provide the service even with uncertain passenger turnout.

So it depends... there are contexts where they make a lot of sense, and ramping up for a full train might not.

Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (Washington, PA) occasionally gives rides in our restored broad gauge Fairmont A8, almost always as part of a special event. We also give cab rides in "The World's Ugliest Diesel Loco" ex-SEPTA RG2 and will do so on June 27, should your taste run to the bizzare in rolling stock. We have under restoration and gauge conversion a 25 ton GE diesel of 1953 vintage and that too will be utilized for cab rides once completed. We've found that the public, after a few trolley rides, often seems to like something really different. We tell 'em that a ride in RG2 will be rough, loud, and stinky and they all go away loving it!

BTW, PTM expects to roll out our restored ex-Rio open car 1758 on that same June 27, check the museum website www.patrolley.org for final details.

Robert - I remember a visit to SMRS many years ago. The train I rode at that time consisted of their 4 wheel diesel locomotive, a drop end gon and a NYC caboose. And they also were running a speeder train that day, with a scheduled meet between the diesel hauled train and the speeder train. So, another variation of successful speeder train operation.

Les

The Walkersville Southern Railroad offers speeder rides on special occasions, such as opening day (May 1 this year), Picnic in the Park (July 3), the Nature Train (Sep 11), and Track Car/Railfan/Museum Day (Sep 18). See the line's website for events at http://www.wsrr.org/events.htm

When a mine closed in Jeongseon, Gangwon Province, Korea, the locals didn't want to see the rail line that served it to be abandoned, so they set it up for operation with pedal-power rail bikes. These scenic rides are extremely popular and I hope to go there myself when I make a return trip next year. See pictures at

http://insidekorea.wordpress.com/2009/1 ... rail-bike/

and text at

http://ecplaza.net/news/13/13852/how_ab ... antic.html

I don't know of anything similar in the US, but it certainly is worth consideration.

Robert,
You make a great argument for the use of motorcars in a start up operation, or on light or off-season days. I don't disagree with any of your comments. However, there are certain points to be made in consideration of the situation here in Roanoke.

This is a new & hopefully growing annual event. Last year featured 1218 joining elements of the NS Business train at the Link Museum. This year, 611 went the 4 blocks down the tracks to Link, and NS had Southern heritage unit 4610 at Link, along with a new EMD SD70-Something and a Republic Locomotive genset unit at VMT. Some historic Roanoke Chapter NRHS equipment was supposed to be at Link also (per their verbal requests earlier in the year), but the ball was dropped somewhere on the movement requests to NS.

As far as competition is concerned, there is none. Unfortunately, with all it's history the State of Virginia has no regularly scheduled historic rail operations. Old Dominion Chapter NRHS's seasonal Buckingham Branch RR trips and our new in 2009 Fall Amtrak Excursions are it.

The motorcar rides at VMT were a great success, and I'm sure we'll repeat them whenever VMT wants us to. The caboose train idea is only a possible concept to provide something different as an attraction next year. (and not mutually exclusive with motorcar rides) The track in question is in pretty good shape, it is the same one where 611 usually sits and hosted the SD70 & Republic unit this year. Not a problem for a T-6 or GP30 and a couple of cabeese. The higher operating costs are negligable in light of the positive PR potential. One of VMT's biggest handicaps over the years is that it has been a transportation museum where nothing moves.