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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Pacific, MO
The torch, jack and lots of penetrating oil such as Kroil. Let it soak for as long as you can and keep dousing it. We've doped up stuff like that for a week before even trying to get it loose.
The grease/screen debate on the 1522:
How did the railroads fit them to the journal? I'm sure they just kept a stock of grease cake/screens made up to swap out and didn't hand fit them. We went through all sorts of gyrations with ours. Hand fitting them to mandrels that were journal size, one thing or another. Never did find a whole lot of literature on the subject, and everyone had their own opinion.
Another subject was adding anything to the cake. I've heard of folks pouring STP on the screen after dropping it down. One person, who probably should have known better told me to put graphite on them. I should also have known better, but tried it on one. When it heated up, the graphite cured and plugged holes in the screen. Didn't hurt anything but I learned from the experience.
Big subject was what temperature did things run at "back in the day"? Another thing that I never found a lot of info on. I read an article once by the SP when they were converting from grease to oil lubrication on the driver journals that said the operating range of grease journals was from 200-350 degrees. That sounds awful hot to me, and with todays hard grease it would run out of the cellar. We had thermocouples on each crown brass and would have stopped long before 350.
I'm retired now, but would still like to know the answers to these subjects.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Warszawa, Polska
Those are some good questions.

I don't have answers, but consider that for example, that all of CN's U-2 class Northerns (155 engines) all the U-1 Mountains (79 Engines) various pacifics, mikados, Santa Fe's, 0-8-0's etc, employed 10" x 13" journals on most wheels, it would make sense to have something that you could just swap in and out as needed.

I wonder if Franklin would have supplied plates fitted to the size of each journal on demand, but then again given the diversity of power out there, maybe they would just send you a flat sheet and you were on your own? Perhaps consult some of Locomotive Cyclopedias.

We have soaked the pin in WD-40 and Diesel fuel. I think we are taking another stab at it on Friday.

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:27 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2567
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Try an 50-50 mix of air tool oil and diesel fuel. WD-40 is just a homeowner's elixir with brand recognition.

It also can help to use an air tool to vibrate the pin and local area while it's dosed up with penetrant. A needle scaler would work well for this, as will an air hammer with a flat end (not sharp) chisel or punch.

Have lots of patience on hand, along with some authentic railroad "persuasive" language.

Howard P.
Rust Never Sleeps, CT

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"I'm a railroad man, not a prophet."


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:50 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Pacific, MO
The ultimate curse for me, the one that always made whatever I was hammering finally break loose was "MOTHER IN LAW"! Never failed me.
Lots of good suggestions here. The operative word is patience.
I scoured every source for information on screens and grease cakes, but nothing could have been better than to actually find someone who dealt with them back in the day. The guy I would have asked many questions used to be a roundhouse foreman on the Wabash and was a walking encyclopedia, but he died before we got to the running stage. I still miss him.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 9:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Warszawa, Polska
I've just been informed that the engine and tender are now separated. The tender drawbar pin was a pain but its out and the tender has been jacked back about 18 inches, the drawbar is still in the casting for now. Tender wheels are chained and locked. when I asked how they got the pin out, the answer was "lots of heat".

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4773
Location: Maine
Absolutely amazing story for the love of a locomotive. Keep it coming, and don't hesitate to add photos, Joe. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Warszawa, Polska
We are planning another work party this Wedneday. Now that the tender drawbar pin is out, we are going to put the engine drawbar pin back in to hold the drawbars in place, as well as finish vacuuming out the smokebox and whatever odd jobs need to be addressed before we hand over the engine.

I'm told that construction on the new pad finally started last Tuesday.

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:03 pm
Posts: 33
From Railway Lubrication, Imperial Oil Ltd. 1947, pg. 69 "Driving Box Temperatures"

Imperial Oil (a.k.a. Esso) was / is a major supplier of railway lubricants in Canada and was a subsidiary of Standard Oil of New Jersey. Presumably, there is a US version of this important reference book.

" After about half an hour's running, this temperature increases until it reaches from 240F to 250F, which is about the normal running temperature. For mile after mile, hour after hour, this temperature is maintained with upward fluctuations when speed is increased. The temperature may reach as high as 350F on long runs at sustained speed but there is no cause for alarm as when the engins speed drops, so does the temperature and normal temperature averaging 250F, will again be resumed."

The above is in reference to the surface temperature of the crown brass.

Grease cakes were manufactured in-house for each type of power using grease presses. The two main methods are described in detail in the aforementioned book.

Gord McOuat
Master Mechanic
Halton County Radial Ry.
Milton, ON


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 553
Location: Ballard, WA
We use that grease cellar set up at Greenfield Village. The blocks are formed using a press that is not unlike a play-doh shaper and stored until they are needed. We used to use soda block grease from Grand Canyon which shaped perfectly, but now we have Interlube grease which is more loose and tears while forming. Before replacing the grease cellar, we smear the perforated screen with a coating of the same hard grease. I've noticed that excess oil actually breaks down the grease more than anything else, but very little is used up within an operating year nevertheless, and the bearing never gets hot.


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:13 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Warszawa, Polska
We had another small work party yesterday. Most of the day was spent cleaning the drawhead castings and vacuuming the smoke box. Construction on the new pad has started and the concrete has been poured and is now curing. We also made a rather pleasent archeological discovery.

http://www.trainweb.org/j.dimech/journal/100602.html

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


Last edited by joe6167 on Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:12 am
Posts: 370
Location: canada
Interesting find there Joe! Strip, clean, paint and install and its good as new!

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Pacific, MO
We had a nice machine for making grease cakes. It came from the SR steam shop in Birmingham and was essentially a big hydraulic press, but operated with two brake cylinders. The trick is to make sure there are no voids when you are done.
That 250-350 degree operating temps sure sound high to me. Problem was that we knew nobody that could remember the "old days" and the fine art of solid bearings and their operating temps. We find that a lot of the old old timers have perfect recall of things that didn't happen. An awful lot of mainline knowledge is gone and like the WWII folks, more leave us every day. I don't think the grease available today would hold up at 350.


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 Post subject: Move of CNR 6167 is One Week Away
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Warszawa, Polska
With the move of CNR 6167 one week away, we had one final work session to make sure everything was in order for the big day.

We finally finished cleaning out the smokebox (and it looks pretty darn good).

Western Mechanical also came out and cut all the wood blocks for the driving wheel journals and removed the steps to the cab from both sides of the engine (sure does make a good way of keeping people out the cab.)

Photos here: http://www.trainweb.org/j.dimech/journal/100607.html

Again, the move is scheduled to take place Tuesday June 15. Helmut Osterman has been asked to be the official photographer for the event. The Goderich And Exeter will be shut down for several hours during the day and that is when the move will happen. She is scheduled to be unloaded at the new pad the next day (June 16).

Of course as more concrete details are passed on, I will relay them here.

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


Last edited by joe6167 on Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:46 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Warszawa, Polska
Here is an update of the proposed move schedule for 6167. Nothing is written in stone but here is how it looks:

The contractor intends to arrive with their equipment and set up the site and their gantry crane on Monday June 14.

On Tuesday June 15 they intend to load both the locomotive & tender onto flatbed floats and have them ready to cross the tracks plus prepare the gantry crane to be ready to cross the tracks as well.

However Tuesday might just be a loading and preparation day. The contractor is not sure how long it will take to get everything ready, and are not sure any or all 3 pieces of equipment could cross on Tuesday, so they have set Wednesday aside for the tentative move schedule. I suspect that we should have an idea by mid-day Tuesday if any or all equipment will need to be moved across on Wednesday.

If Tuesday loading and preparation goes well they will start to move equipment across within these 3 windows of Rail service schedules:

Early Morning Window..... 07:01 to 09:44
Mid Morning Window.......09.44 to 12.13
Afternoon Window....12:13 to 18:49

If Tuesday preparation does not result in any equipment moving across or just some of the 3 pieces, Wednesday June 16 will see all 3 pieces, or the balance of components move over within the same schedule times starting early.

Whenever the actual moving starts, it is proposed the Tender will move first, followed by the gantry crane, then 6167.

After all 3 pieces have been moved over, the gantry crane will have been set up to place the Tender and Locomotive from the floats on to the site pad.

The contractor will then begin to remove all their equipment.

It is likely that 6167 will be placed facing East due to the logistics of the transfer route.

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CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


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 Post subject: Re: CNR 6167 News
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:49 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4773
Location: Maine
I am looking forward to the individual images of the transfer. You guys have done a great job, prepping and painting the locomotive.

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"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


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