There are quite a few 2-8-4's, but there is never enough steam to be opperated! =]

Amen, brother, amen! :-)

JC, what would you like to see? I know you've mentioned NYC 3001 (double-checked the spec list, she does have rollers), but is there anything else you would nominate? Ross does need two backups, you know. . .:-)

Don't get me wrong, I would be happy to see anything and I would be surprised if a Kanawha isn't chosen as most of them would be perfect candidates. I just like suggesting different stuff than everything that is already out there.

Reading 2124, Illinois Central 2542, Frisco 4501, N&W 1218, CB&Q 5633 and NYC 3001 would make my list for backups.

Excellent choices all, some beauties in there (and Frisco 4501's blue and silver paint is so bright you almost need sunglasses to look at the photos that appeared here recently). No doubt Ross will be looking at these and others we don't know about, or at least haven't mentioned.

Not a bad idea for more engines to get a bit of "exercise," as race horses must have as well.

Problem is, where can we afford a place for them to get their "exercise," and to keep them fed and watered, too?

A personal fantasy (which I know I'll never see): I would love to see every existing steamer in operation today, if not in person, at least in print; all would be in a service along the lines of what Mr. Rowland and Mr. Justice are proposing (i.e., regularly scheduled, seasonal, in effect a main-line heritage or tourist rail service, not all of it the first-class priced operation proposed here), and all on home rails. Wouldn't it be grand, for instance, to see a Great Northern 4-8-4 (No. 2544 I think it is, Baldwin, 1930), with the existing Big G 4-8-2s as stablemates, handling extra sections of Amtrak's Empire Builder to Glacier National Park in the summer? How about 3751 and a 2900 covering one of the San Diegan schedules in the appropriate season? (I'm assuming we won't be getting the real HSR system out there for a little while yet--and even then, it wouldn't be likely to use the existing Surf Line.)

It doesn't cost extra to dream first class--so we'll have the engines pulling 12-wheel heavyweights in Pullman green. . .

I wonder how many places there are that you could do something like this and support the operation financially?

Oh, well. . .

Being Canadian, I can't help seeing a Northern or Hudson as being "proper" mainline passenger power, but any big steam locomotive is a wonderful thing.

There's a lot to be said for standardization and the sheer number of these 2-8-4's would seem to offer the opportunity to assemble a small fleet that could realize some of those advantages.

Of course, Ross and his partners will choose engines based on availability, tractive effort/ speed, anticipated restoration/ operating costs, anticipated reliability and availability, and other real- world business considerations. Historical data can offer a guide, but modern materials and methods and the difficulty of setting up a fully equipped (and staffed) shop will distort the historic data. "Railfan appeal" really should be one of the least important considerations, as the general public and most passengers will only see a "steam engine"- if they even notice that much!

614 might not fit in a "standardized" fleet, but she's a bird in the hand and has definitely proven herself in fairly recent steam operations. She definitely has a strong railfan following and will be a beautiful and highly capable "flagship" engine for the fleet.

I'd say the choice of other engines should be guided by good business principles with very little concern for railfan wishes. The success of the operation far outweighs cosmetic issues. Once they're running, whatever engines are chosen will develop their own fans and cultivate a new crop of steam addicts!

Best of luck with this venture, Ross. It's a very exciting prospect that could raise the profile of train travel and steam operations. Those two things will benefit every other operation in the continent to some degree.

Steve Hunter
Cardinal, Ontario

Was talking about this yesterday with a friend. Tossing around ideas and thinking of your favorite engine in steam is a lot of fun you have to look at the numbers. I think Ross mentioned 15 million dollars. Spread this over a fleet of ultra luxury passenger cars, 3 diesels, and 3 steamers and you can spend it all fast. A million dollars per car is not beyond reality. I assume that is why it is being done with employees rather than contractors. I would venture to say you could spend the better part of if on either the steam or the cars. I'm looking for 614 and already restored "hired guns".

Ross has told us that 614 already has some of this technology. He mentioned the problem that the steam should not be shut off completely to the cylinders when a penalty brake application is necessary, or there will be lubrication problems inside.
Pennsylvania RR had steam engines with Automatic Speed Control in addition to Cab Signals and Automatic Train Stop.
The Federal Railroad Administration has proposed possibly exempting routes like the Cardinal's with very few passenger trains per week. Will the Greenbriar Express trains push the count over the final proposed minimum?

I agree with this and have no doubts Mr. Rowland and his organization will pick the best locomotives for the job. I also wouldn't be surprised if he already has a long list of candidates he is considering, which is why I think we should make our list a little more fun than serious. Think of it like being a kid writing a letter to Santa. :-)




Thanks. I wasn't aware 614 had PTC tech already. Guess NJT must run with it.

I don't know about the exemption but, it could be possible. The other hurdle the CSX line would face is if it hauls poisonous inhalant haz-mat. I cannot see any line with Amtrak and PIH being exempted.

As a former dispatcher I just wonder how a PTC system will operate if it cannot "see" the train through GPS. In CTC extra precaution is taken for equipment that does not shunt the track but, those precautions couldn't be taken for a train running 70mph.

Well I think engines that have yet to be used in excursion service should be used. Dont get me wrong, but the 611, 1218, 2716 all are beautiful, but I think new loco's should be chosen. Engines like 2776, 2727, 490, 1604 should be let free to run.

I always figured it would be easier/cheaper to get a engine running that was used 20 years ago instead of one that was used 50+ years ago.

I wasnt getting at how easy or how much it would cost, I was just saying I would perfer an engine that has not been run in 50+ years.

Oh boy, 2-6-6-6 sounds like me, a Chessie fan--bring'em all back, I say, boost steam and train travel too. . .

Haven't had this much fun with anticiapation since I wrote letters to Santa Clause. . .:-)

I like the idea of a 2-6-6-6 being restored (hence my username) but if one were to actually be restored; restore the 1604...1601 is near my house and is a great excuse to go to THFM.

Hey, Big Bad 2-6-6-6, I have to ask a question of you. How did you get interested in these old coffee pots on wheels in the first place? I took a look at your profile, and young whipper-snappers like you are supposed to be into hot cars, awful looking clothes, and horrible music to drive old fogies like me up the wall (I'm 55)!:-) At least, that's what Hollyweird and Madison Avenue try to tell us.

Seriously, a lot of other posters around here have wondered where we would get younger blood. . .


. . .egads, "younger blood," makes us sound like we're in a vampire movie, and we geezers are the vampires. . .vampire flicks have been popular lately. . .but I can't help but look at one of the posters for "Twilight," and think of American-International Productions 1950s films with titles like "I Was A Teenage Werewolf," which starred a pre-Bonanza, pre-Little-House-On-The-Prairie actor named Michael Landon. . .

How did I get interested in steam? Ehh...I think Ross Rowland summed it up pretty good in an interview with someone, he said "I think many people like steam because the mechanics are on the outside and not hidden behind panels of sheet metal" or something like that. It was a trip to THFM about 9(?) years ago that got me interested in the allegheny’s. And I have no idea how vampires got back into the movies...I thought they were done with.