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 Post subject: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 am
Posts: 384
Location: Reston, VA
Friday, August 13 was the first day of revenue operation for Rio open car 1758 at the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum. This completes a major project of regauging and restoring the car. The regauging included changing the wheels, axles and motors as well as widening the truck frames and relocating the running boards to provide truck clearance on curves. The wheels were changed from 30" (worn to 29") to 26" so that the wheels would clear the side sills on curves. As a result, the original WH 306 motors would not fit and were replaced with a set of GE 247 motors. This also required replacing the resistors.

Much of this work was due to our need to be able to operate the car almost anywhere on our line, which includes a 42' radius loop. However, it is restricted from one carbarn track, as are all cars that exceed the clearance envelope for a standard Pittsburgh or Philadelphia city car.

The car as regauged has a top speed of around 23 MPH, comparable to our Philadelphia and New Orleans streetcars. This speed is quite adequate to activate the air conditioning.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
Thanks for the report. One might ask "how many other standard gauge streetcars have been modified to run on Pennsylvania/New Orleans wide gauge tracks?" I know of several wide gauge cars that have been "standardized", including Hill of Howth 2 at OERM, and two New Orleans cars in San Francisco. Also, going to smaller wheels makes the car a bit easier to board for passengers who aren't as agile as they used to be. (here in Southern California, we'd call it a "low rider"). As I recall, there were several of these Rio de Janeiro cars imported back around 1970 to provide the experience of riding open-bench cars in places where all the local streetcars of this type were long gone, so there shouldn't be any qualms about "tampering with historic fabric" here.

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:05 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 1182
I helped restore no. 1758 when it was at the Magee Transportation Museum in Bloomsburg, (1965-1972) as no. 3, and it was a real thrill for me to ride the car last Sunday morning. As I rode the car, I was thinking about the late Ed Blossom, who led the restoration effort and who taught me everything I know about restoration, and the late Ed Miller, who photographed the restoration as it progressed and taught me to operate K-control, straight air cars.

No. 1758 was one of a dozen cars that came from Rio de Janeiro in 1965. We had four cars at Bloomsburg and Rockhill Trolley Museum had three. Others went to RELIC (Fox River) and Warehouse Point, if I recall. The cars were in terrible condition when they arrived by ship in New York, and it took quite a long time to put any of them in service.

The car probably has more miles on the highway than it ever had in operation in the USA. From Bloomsburg, it went to New Jersey, then to two different locations in Florida before returning to Pennsylvania!

Congratulations to the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum for a job well-done.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 670
Location: Union, IL
G. W. Laepple wrote:
No. 1758 was one of a dozen cars that came from Rio de Janeiro in 1965. We had four cars at Bloomsburg and Rockhill Trolley Museum had three. Others went to RELIC (Fox River) and Warehouse Point, if I recall.


I don't know if I've seen a comprehensive roster of the Rio open cars in print - I haven't really been tracking them since they're from overseas but the fleet has had a pretty varied existence from what I can figure. I can come up with current locations for nine of the double-truck cars:

2 - Connecticut Trolley Museum (one runs)
2 - Midwest Electric Railway Museum (both ex-Magee, both run)
1 - Rockhill Trolley Museum (runs)
1 - Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (ex-Orlando, ex-Magee, runs)
1 - Illinois Railway Museum (ex-Electric City)
1 - Northern Ohio Railway Museum (ex-PTM)
1 - Middletown & Hummelstown (ex-RELIC/private ownership)

I believe there were also two single-truckers, though I'm not sure if those were part of the dozen you mention or additional to it. One is at the M&H and runs, while I think the other may have been destroyed in a fire in Pennsylvania years ago.

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Preserved North American Electric Railway Equipment News
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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 1182
Thanks for the updated list, Frank. I have been trying to recall the original recipients of the cars, and here's what I've come up with:

4 cars -- Magee Transportation Museum
2 cars -- Warehouse Point
3 cars -- Railways to Yesterday, Inc.
1 car -- RELIC

I thought I remembered a dozen cars, but perhaps there were only 10. The two single truckers were the one at RELIC and one owned by Railways to Yesterday, which was destroyed in a fire about 20 years ago. I don't think Middletown & Hummelstown has two cars, but I could be mistaken.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
Many years ago I rode the Rio car at RELIC (now Fox River Trolley Museum). I remember that before we went through a switch near the south end, the conductor had to place a "gap filler" in the switch frog because the car had narrow "streetcar" wheels. Also, when it was time to change ends, he pointed out the fare register, which looked like something from a San Francisco cable car. He demonstrated the direction-indicating window, which would display either "Volto" or "Ido", and commented that "Since nobody here knows Portuguese, we don't know whether we're coming or going." I know enough Spanish to translate, but kept quiet, not wanting to "upstage" his "schtick".

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Southern California


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
One of the Rio opens has been significantly rebuilt as a closed car and operates in Memphis. I think Joel Salomon has a complete roster of Rio cars.

Wesley

Image


Last edited by wesp on Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 am
Posts: 384
Location: Reston, VA
Geneaology of Rio open cars:

3 bought by Warehouse Point - 2 there (one runs); one sold to Memphis (runs, see Wes's picture).

3 bought by Rockhill - 1 there (runs); 1 at Northern Ohio Railway Museum (via PTM); 1 single truck car lost in shop fire.

4 bought by Magee - 2 to Old Threshers, Mt Pleasant, IA (both run); 1 to PTM via several owners (runs); 1 to IRM via private owner & Elecric City TM.

2 bought by Wendell Dillinger - both originally at RELIC, moved to the Middletown & Hummelstown when the railroad was bought by Mr. Dillinger. One is a single truck car.

All 10 double truck and 2 single truck cars accounted for.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:43 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 705
In response to the question about standard gauge cars being modified to Pennsylvania broad gauge, the current answer is that Rio 1758 is (SFAIK) the sole example. (But it should be noted that other such conversions have been made to Toronto's "slightly broad" gauge and maybe to Baltimore's even odder gauge.)

However Pennsylvania Trolley Museum plans such conversions for several other cars in its collection, notably Johnstown Traction 350 and Mon West Penn 250. While some may see this as meddling with "original fabric" we at PTM consider such a change as "not visually obvious" and thus put it in a category with such necessary changes during a restoration as the use of modern wire and cable and tempered glass windows. The fact that all our trackage is 62.5" gauge is also a factor, because otherwise these desirable cars would be forever hangar queens.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:49 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 1182
Thanks for the geneology of the Rio opens, Mr. Schwartz. It's now established that there were 12 cars as I originally believed. (I had it mostly right, but after 45 years my memory has dimmed a bit....) Two of the cars held by the Magee Museum were to have eventually been shipped out to Paul Class at the Oregon Electric Railway Historical Society, the guy who pulled the original deal together. Alas, he never got to enjoy the cars he worked so hard to secure.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:28 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1755
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
Since New Orleans converted entire lines, including St. Charles, from Standard to Pennsylvania Broad Gauge, they must have also converted some cars.

There is a published photo of a borrowed standard gauge Salem & Pennsgrove (N.J.) trolley derailed on the broad gauge Torresdale, Bristol & Trenton (Pa.) tracks. The New Jersey destination sign curtain is still displayed - DUPONT No 2!


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
When did the Rio car go to IRM via ECTM in Scranton?


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:49 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:05 am
Posts: 1140
Location: San Francisco
The Seashore Trolley Museum does not have any of the Rio cars as stated.

But they have re-qauged several cars including at least two PCCS from Toronto and Pittsburg and their New Orleans car now running at Lowell, Massachusetts.

Another job that comes to mind is their Baltimore car which I believe was 64.5" the widest street car gauge used in the USA.

The Shoreline Trolley Museum had a Baltimore crane which they used for years on a pair of standard gauge trucks. It has now gone back to Baltimore to ride on broad gauge trucks again.

The Pennsylvania Trolley Museum is planning to re-gauge their Cincinnati car which was at Trolleyville and converted to standard gauge there. The PTM folks are going to convert it back to Pennsylvania broad gauge as it ran in Ohio.

I am told that the reason that New Orleans cars were easy to change gauge on is because the Pearly Thomas 800 Class trucks have holes in the truck frames for both standard and broad gauge. The two Connecticut museums took advantage of this when they converted their cars to standard gauge.

Only recently I found out that there is another dimension to wheels besides the gauge. The wheels car be narrow tread for street cars and compromise tread and railroad tread in width.

At the Western Railway Museum the Shop recently changed a MUNI PCC that had street car (narrow) wheels to compromise (medium) because a lot of our track and turnouts are railroad style (wide) tread.

All of this work is to make a car able to be operated in a museum setting. Sometimes the rails are historic and sometimes they are built specifically for museum operation.

Ted Miles


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:03 pm
Posts: 9
Location: South Jersey
In reply to wesp's inquiry about the timing of the move of the former Rio open from Electric City Trolley Museum to IRM, it was earlier this year.
And to fill out Art Schwartz's helpful recounting of the disposition of the 12 opens, the "private owner" between Magee Museum and Electric City was Ed Blossom, who was responsible for the Magee Museum cars.

David Noyes


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Trolley Museum open car
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 am
Posts: 384
Location: Reston, VA
In addition to the cars mentioned by Dave H., the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum has one other operable car that was originally standard gauge. Boston hopper dump car 3618 was obtained as a complete car body by PTM and placed on a pair of trucks from a Pittsburgh side dump car. This raises an interesting question. Would the car be considered more authentic if it were on a pair of trucks from a retired passenger car, as it ran in Boston; or on a pair of trucks from the original manufacturer of the car, the type that the car was designed for, as it is now.

By the way, the 250 and 350 are both now on broad gauge shop trucks. to facilitate carbarn storage and switching.

To my knowledge, New Orleans never converted any cars from standard gauge back to broad gauge when the Riverfront line, their only standard gauge line in the last 80 years, was converted to broad gauge. Most service on the standard gauge iteration of the Riverfront line was provided by ex-Melbourne cars that were sold. There were a few Perley Thomas cars that were converted to standard gauge. These were retired with the conversion to broad gauge.

Finally, based on pictures that I have seen, the Rio car in Memphis was rebuilt to a convertible car. Most unusual.


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