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 Post subject: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:14 pm 

Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:29 pm
Posts: 26
Over the 51 years of its existence Mid-Continent or its members obtained a total of 19 steam locomotives that arrived at the museum and divested of six of these, thus leaving 13 steam locomotives on site. In fact, Mid-Continent Railway Museum was recognized around the country for its steam locomotive operations, which continued from 1963 to February, 2000. The operation of “demonstration steam passenger train in a historically accurate environment of a turn-of-the-century rural railroad” is a prominent component of the mission statement. Fortunately for me, I had the privilege of firing all four operating steam locomotives in the mid-1970s.

Consumers Company No. 701, a 0-4-0 switch engine built by American Loccomotive in 1914, was the first locomotive obtained by the Society in 1959. This locomotive can be found somewhere on the dead track south of the Coach Shed. This was followed by the purchase of Louisiana Cyprus No. 2, a 2-6-0, which can be found disassembled by the engine house near the Baraboo River. I have heard this is the oldest surviving Lima locomotive, built in 1906.

The next and most important locomotive to arrive was C&NW No. 1385 in 1961, which was the first locomotive to pull passenger trains over the newly purchased C&NW spur out of North Freedom in 1963. C&NW No. 1385, built by American Locomotive in 1907, became the figurehead of the new organization and ran on and off for the next 32 years. Its naked and gutted boiler currently sits on its frame and wheels south of the Coach Shed and cab is on a flat car near by. The Chicago and North Western had an agreement to operate the locomotive over its system in the late 1980s after the company performed a complete overhaul. Mid-Continent thought this would be an advertising bonanza to bring more visitors to the museum. However, Mid-Continent got back a worn-out locomotive and no bump in visitors. However, it did bring an increase in new and younger members who thought Mid-Continent was an organization for mainline operations instead of a dedicated museum with a demonstration steam passenger train.

The No. 1385 was followed in 1963 by the Dardanelle and Russellville No. 9, another 2-6-0 built in 1884, and was the oldest locomotive to come to the Museum. Three locomotives were donated by Central Illinois Public Services in 1964. CIPS No. 5, a 2-4-2 tank engine built by Porter, was on the property a few years before being sold to Crab Orchard & Egyptian; CIPS No. 6, a 0-4-0 tank engine built by Vulcan in 1923, can be found disassembled and in deteriorating condition south of the Coach Shed; and CIPS No. 7 (former NYC No. 6721), an 0-6-0 tender switcher built around 1945, was sold to the National Cash Register for exhibit in Dayton, Ohio a few years around 1974. This locomotive presently survives in upstate New York.

In quick succession during 1965, Mid-Continent Railway Museum obtained Alabama, Tennessee & Northern No. 401 (Woodward No. 41), a 2-10-0 built in 1928 by Baldwin; Warren & Ouachita Valley No. 1, a 4-6-0 built in 1906 by Burnham, Williams & Co.; and Western Coal & Coke No. 1, a 4-6-0 built in 1913 by Montreal Locomotive Works. Woodward No. 41 can be seen half covered by trees west of the depot, W&OV No. 1 left the property when the private owner found serious damage to the tender axles because someone put cinders in the journal boxes, and WC&C No. 1 is in pieces in the engine house. Repair of this latter locomotive has been the primary fundraising focus of the Society.

Chicago, Burlington & Quincy No. 4960, a big 2-8-2 built in 1923 by Baldwin, was delivered by the C&NW under its own steam to the Mid-Continent lead as a donation by Circus World Museum in Baraboo in 1966. Apparently this locomotive was donated to Circus World Museum by the Burlington to pull their circus train to Milwaukee and CWM did not want it. The locomotive was driven into the south yard at Mid-Continent where it sat for years, being too big for the Mid-Continent main line. CB&Q No. 4960 was leased to the Bristol & Northwestern in Tennessee in 1981 where it ran for two years before it was dismantled for repair. No progress and few rent checks were made over a number of years so the locomotive and parts were sold to the Grand Canyon Railroad.

No additional steam locomotives were obtained until Union Pacific No. 440, a 2-8-0 with Vanderbilt tender built by Burnham, Williams & Co. in 1900, was donated by the Union Pacific Historical Society in 1975. Kewaunee, Green Bay & Western No. 49, a 2-8-0 built in 1929 by the American Locomotive Co., was donated in 1981. Saginaw Timber (Polson Lumber) No. 2, a 2-8-2 built by Baldwin in 1912, was purchased by a member and delivered to Mid-Continent in 1982. And Goodman Lumber Co. Shay No. 9 built in 1909 by Lima arrived in 1988. Both of these latter locomotives were cosmetically restored and are on prominent display in front of the depot. UP No. 440 had its boiler stripped but no one knew what to do about all the flexible stay bolts. The locomotive languished in this state for about 20 years before being traded for Copper Range No. 29. UP No. 440 was sold to a restaurant in northern Wisconsin and was cosmetically restored as a C&NW locomotive. This fate should make the UPHS feel a little queasy.

Lake Superior & Ishpeming No. 22, a 2-8-0 built in 1910 by American Locomotive Co., was one of two LS&I locomotives purchased privately at auction in 1985 and delivered to the Mid-Continent lead track. This locomotive was restored for operation but a cosmetic restoration is on hold by the owner because of the present climate of the Society. The second locomotive, LS&I No. 29 was sold by the owner to Grand Canyon Railroad. And Soo Line No. 2645, a 4-6-0 built by Brooks Locomotive Works in 1900, was donated by the town of Waukesha in 1989, was cosmetically restored, and is on display across from the depot.

The last locomotive to arrive at the museum was Copper Range No. 29, a 2-8-0 built by American Locomotive in 1907 and delivered in 2004. The purpose of obtaining this locomotive was to assemble a complete train set featuring CR No. 29, CR No. 25 (a combine), and CR No. 60 (a coach of the same purchase set as CR No. 25) for display in the planned display building.

Today, thirteen steam locomotives can be found in various places and conditions on Mid-Continent Railway Museum property. Those steam locomotives still in intact condition are: CC No. 701; D&R No. 9; AT&N No. 401; GL No. 9; KGB&W No. 49; SL No. 2645; and CR No. 29. Those in disassembled condition and dormant are: LC No. 2; C&NW No. 1385; and CIPS No. 6. Those undergoing repair are: WC&C No. 1; PL No. 2; and LS&I No. 22. And those dispensed with include: CIPS No. 5; CIPS No. 7 (NYC No. 6721); W&OV No. 1; CB&Q No. 4960; UP No. 440; and LS&I No. 29.

I personally think it is shameful that so many of these locomotives under custodial care of the Mid-Continent Railway Museum are languishing in a disassembled state where they cannot be an educational experience to the visitor. It appears to me that proper planning has not been exercised in the execution of these started and not finished projects and this lack of planning has persisted throughout the later lifespan of the Mid-Continent Railway Historical Society. I sincerely hope other organizations take better care of their historically valuable collection locomotives.

My next contribution will address efforts and progress to repair these steam locomotives.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Posts: 19
Louisiana Cyprus No. 2 is not the oldest surviving Lima built locomotive. Shaylocomotives.com shows 12 shays built in 1905 or earlier with the oldest being built in 1884. I don't have any information available for rod locomotive. I suppose it is possible that #2 is the oldest surviving Lima built "rod" locomotive.

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:16 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6471
Byron -

Although Dardanelle & Russellville 2-6-0 #9 WAS built in 1884, I believe that the engine got a new boiler many years later. She is quite a good looking engine and, of the ones that operated at Mid-Continent, has always been my favorite.

Also, NYC 0-6-0 #6721 (CIPS #7) was built in 1913, not 1945. There weren't a lot of 0-6-0's being built for major railroads that late in the steam era.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:13 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2092
Sorry, but I don't see why a disassembled locomotive does not have educational value. Does everything in this industry have to be complete, clean, and "pretty"?

Seems like there might be an opportunity to do something different and original.

Unless of course an organization really doesn't have any educational mission at all.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:59 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 954
I guess I would of never of thought of our "shameful" past as being educational, but suppose it is in a way. Like don't do what we did, we learned the hard way?

There have been some very poorly planned and underfunded projects at MC for sure. The tales of the UP #440, Louisiana Cyprus Lumber Co #2 and the CIPS #6 are old tales of what to watch out for or what not to do. In these three engines the road to hell was paved with good intentions. Brief history of these.

MC was offered the UP #440 and we as a museum actually tried to make an educated decision as to go after it or not. A bunch of us went and inspected the locomotive in Lincoln, Ne and found the engine to be in cosmetically rough shape, but the running gear looked like it had been shopped shortly before retirement. The axles still had the look of freshly machined axles, the tires looked almost new, many signs of rework done. What we didn't see until after we readied the locomotive for movement was the damage done to the firebox, mainly the corrosion to the rivets and flexible staybolt caps and sleeves and wrapper sheet. I pulled the jacketing off just before we shipped the loco north. It was the worse corrosion damage I have seen to date. This was in 1975 I think. So the jacketing had only been sitting cold for maybe 25 years. While I am sure most will disagree with me about the UP #440's current cosmetic restoration, it has a good home, a roof over it, it is painted and looks reasonably good to most people. It looks 100% better than it would of if it had stayed at MC. Historically not good, but it honors the CN&W employees of Antigo, Wi back when Antigo was a huge railroad town. I am sure they would of liked to get an original CN&W locomotive, but few are available now or then.

The LCLC #2 was taken apart by a well intentioned member of MC back in the early 1970s, almost 40 years ago. It was going to be "his" project and he had support of a lot of the membership at the time. This one is a crying shame. I think she was considered the smallest Lima rod engine in existence, possibly ever built? Doesn't matter much now. If we ever got her back together and running there would be very little original left.

The CIPS #6 was another members project, he got it running and then tore it apart with the intention of a full rebuild. Again it was going to be "his" project. got it tore apart and lost interest I guess. This one wouldn't take much to put back together and have running. Not so many moving parts on a 0-4-0 tank engine.

The more modern day foul ups were with the CN&W #1385 and the Montreal #1. The lack of understanding of the FRA changes back in the early days of the changes. Then the continued refusal to except the fact these changes were real and did indeed exist caused a lot of mistakes to be made, some over and over again.

Ok I guess disassembled locomotives could be considered educational. But in all fairness, MC isn't the only outfit to be caught doing very stupid and expensive educational ventures in futility. While the current management is questionable in many ways, most of these screw ups were from the "good old days" long before the FRA changes came to be or our current BOD were even MC members or board members. MC has had many successes over the years, but even in our "hay day" of running wood cars and steam every day we still did some foolish things. Hind sight is 20/20 and at times embarrassing.

Cheers, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:33 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2092
There tends to be a preoccupation in preservation with things having to be complete and pretty in order to have value, educational or otherwise. This is unfortunate because some of the finest railroad industry displays ever produced for trade shows and public events including Worlds Fairs and State Fairs featured components of locomotives and partially disassembled locomotives. A disassembled steam locomotive could be viewed as an opportunity rather than a liability.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:07 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 480
I think the distinction, with regards to disassembled locomotives, is something like this: it's one thing when they're placed in some kind of interpretive context. Example: if the North Carolina Transportation Museum's backshop were to be restored solely as a locomotive backshop, then a disassembled locomotive-with mannequins, tools positioned, videotaped explanations, etc-makes some sense.

It's another thing when the disassembled locomotive has parts lost in the weeds, has a chunk here and a chunk there, nothing telling the visitor what it is, why it's in its current shape, future plans, etc-and leaves the average visitor with thoughts along the lines of "Sanford and Son". In other words, the image is one of all too many "museums"....


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:30 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
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Exaclty, and what it takes is for someone to have the vision and the determination to turn that pile of parts into an interesting exhibit that tells a story.

The ideal guidance for this is the industry trade shows of the 1930s and 1940s when the steam vs. diesel competition was at its peak. There were some fabulous exhibits in those days using disassembled locomotives and components of locomotives. One of the best one of that period was a diesel, or part of a diesel, EMD's machinery of an F3 displayed without the locomotive carbody. It became the centerpiece of their postwar training center, and included the roof hatches properly suspended above the locomotive machinery set. Consider that hundreds of sets of F-unit machinery have been scrapped in the 60 years since EMD set up that display, and not one museum has set up any comparable exhibit.

Many of the same concepts are adaptable to steam, for example displaying the boiler or the running gear as individual exhibits.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 549
Location: Illinois
I still find it very hard to believe that what was one of the best and most-recognized steam railroads not just in the midwest, but nationwide, has now been without steam for 10 years, and seems to be no closer to having an engine operable today than in 2000. Imagine if Strasburg hadn't had a working steam engine for 10 years now.

Back in the steam days MC seemed to me to be a major rallying point for railfans from the Chicago to Minneapolis corridor, both to visit and to work at. Today I don't hear of anyone going there from the Chicago area. That's a big loss for the hobby in our area.

Considering some neighboring museums (such as MTM and IRM) aren't in much better shape with their steam programs I still think some sharing of resources to possibly share a restored engine should at least be investigated.

Chris.


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:31 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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ctjacks wrote:
I still find it very hard to believe that what was one of the best and most-recognized steam railroads not just in the midwest, but nationwide, has now been without steam for 10 years, and seems to be no closer to having an engine operable today than in 2000. Imagine if Strasburg hadn't had a working steam engine for 10 years now.

Considering some neighboring museums (such as MTM and IRM) aren't in much better shape with their steam programs I still think some sharing of resources to possibly share a restored engine should at least be investigated.

Chris.


Chris -

Also kind of interesting that some smaller operations in the midwest seem to have kept steam going on a pretty regular basis during this period. I am thinking of the Little River Rail Road; the Silver Creek & Stephenson; the Huckleberry and Greenfield Village.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Mid-Continent Blogs #8 - Steam Program
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:10 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:22 pm
Posts: 219
A little update on the ex UP #440.
In 1955 it was donated to the Nebraska State Fair where it was exhibited by the old State Arsenal building.
In the early 1970's, plans developed for a new sports center at the fairgrounds in the general area of #440.
It had to be removed and the Cornhusker Chapter of the NRHS took over the engine. After being pulled out of the fairgrounds, it sat in the downtown UP yard in Lincoln, NE for several years.
After futile attempts to find a local home for it, it was offered to MC.
I was in the cab for the first 50 miles of it being towed by the CN&W to Wisconsin.
My cab ride was from Lincoln to Frement, NE. My friend, Jim Burden, accompanied me in the cab for the trip. The UP had nothing to do with the transfer or donation of the locomotive.
Ira Schreiber,
Aurora, CO


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