Stationary and Alex #4 have overlooked the core of my post, stating that while the locomotive is apart, photograph, measure, drawing, x_ray, etc.*, every inch of the locomotive, so her fabrication is recorded. At that time, send her across the street,and use much the same technique to record a modern rebuild.

As posted in the official museum statement, the 460 is currently composed of many parts of many sister E6's. As they ran, they were constantly upgraded to meet PRR requirements. Beside's, we're only talking hypothetically, so why get your undies in a bunch?

*Use every conceivable archaeological tool for recording mechanical information. If it makes you guys happier, you can stop at DNA.

I've heard first hand stories of an E-6 to being given a rake of 14 P-70's for Atlantic City train, not exactly a light train in anyone's book. The same engineers said some guys were better than others,but with a very deft hand on the throttle she would do the duty. The hardest part seemed to be getting the train out of Broadway Station in Camden which had a nasty little grade heading towards Center Tower,but once out on the main and running through the Jersey pines she did well. I believe none of E-6's had stokers or power reversers which seemed sort of odd for a fairly modern design, so find a sturdy man to handle the scoop at 70 mph.

We all know the story of the 460, but what about the film it delivered? This could be it:

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675062075_Charles-Lindbergh_Calvin-Coolidge_Distinguished-Flying-Cross_address-people

Does anyone know what company chartered the PRR?

Bob Bunge

According to Frederick Westing's Apex of the Atlantics (Kalmbach 1963), International News Reel Company/Corporation. See also:

http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/membership/mi ... omemos.htm

IF the Lindbergh-parade footage survives today, here's where it would be:

http://www.cinema.ucla.edu/pdfs/FTVStud ... wsreel.pdf

Um, perhaps in the shop at Toon Town with current PRR successor employees. As for "modern technology" obliterating historic fabric, I'd say that's a bit of a stretch. How much "historic fabric" is really left after all those years of service? I think the folks next door at Strasburg (and at many other locations) would take great offense that their work somehow prevents us from determining how locomotives were built and operated. After all, photos tell us what we need to know - oh wait, actual experience might just mean a bit more. I'm not sure 1361's restoration has obliterated much in the way of historic fabric, but there has been a lot of deteriorated metal repaired or replaced (more to do, I realize). With the exception of the crown stay issue, which could be repaired by "going original" in design, is there really anything that isn't merely repairing or replacing in the same or similar manner that PRR would have done it?

Is there any record of what cars were used on the Lindbergh special, particularly the baggage car that was used as a rolling darkroom to develop the newsreel film? Does this car (or a suitable stand-in) still exist? Seems to me that if a/the car could be set up with the appropriate darkroom equipment, along with a screen showing the final product, it would make an interesting interpretive display to go along with the restored 460.

Again, according to Westing's Apex of the Atlantics, which reprints David P. Morgan's article of the Oct. 1952 Trains & Travel:

Baggage car 7874, a standard B60B class steel baggage-express car of arch-roof, eight-wheel design, was the "darkroom" car. There was a passenger coach as well, but I don't see the number here.

.

Kelly Anderson already did a great job of responding to this, but I could not help myself. "Historic Fabric" is not limited to whatever rolled off the floor in Philadelphia, Schenectady, Lima, etc. Anything on a locomotive from its "period of significance" is historic fabric. Anything changed or added after its period of significance is not. Determining the period of significance for a locomotive is an important step in creating a preservation plan. This period could span the entire working life of a locomotive, it may be more finely tuned to correspond with a specific event, a specific use, or a specific configuration.

Mr. Anderson,
With regards to #7002, if it were feasible to restore her in EVERY conceivable way, does your statement about her being a back breaking pig signify that The Strasburg would NOT be the host railroad for her running again...even if excursions over Amtrak were planned?

I remember reading a less than recent post of yours where it stated that on The Strasburg she ran like a dog while on the mainline she was great to run. That is what she was built to do and please forgive my ignorance on this part but, while I have had a love affair with The Strasburg since I was 2 years old, it is not a place to run an engine such as the #7002 again. If you do not advocate running that engine, then indoors at RRMPA is the BEST place she can be. While 460 has sat outside for as long as I can remember and the elements have beaten the cr*p out of her a cosmetic restoration is all that can be achieved and we should all be happy she's getting the care she needs.
Would there be ANY way that The Strasburg would or COULD run ANY other engine across the street, no matter what condition they are in now?

Why are we even wasting our time discussing the operation of RRMPA locomotives? Could we spend our time discussing topics that might have a snowballs chance in hell of actually taking place? RRMPA has a no operation policy regarding their locomotives, as at least they do understand what the term "historic fabric" means.

Ugh between you and Alexander Mitchell, this place is looking more and more like a haven for grumpy people. If people choose to discuss that in this topic, WHO CARES? The reality of the situation is that no RRMPA loco will ever be restored to operating condition...EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. It doesn't mean they're absolutely forbidden from talking about it either. And when all is said and done, you're still not any worse for wear, so being grumpy and negative is really unnecessary. Practice what you preach and "Grow Up"

My only problem with discussing pipe dreams such as "rebuilding a PRR T1" or "restoring PRR 6755/[name an unrealistic steam restoration] to operation" is that every last time those balloons are floated, the (current) realities of the situations at hand don't just deflate those hopeful balloons, they blast them to smithereens like a Gatling gun.

And, once again, we're stuck with having to deal with the bawling kiddies that shouldn't have been floating that balloon in the first place............ Eventually, you wince at the mere sight of the balloon vendor.

I wish I could be encouraging the dreamers. But, unlike Britain, it's going to take a lot more "hope and change" of a real sort in this nation's railroad, cultural, and legal environments until it's realistic to ask RYPN, NRHS, etc. members to pledge "the price of a pint a week" towards building a replica NYC Hudson or the like. Are these challenges insurmountable? No--heaven knows, someday the RR Museum of Pa., for example, may be so desperate to score populist and political favor or Hollywood dollars that their official policy could change. But what's really involved with success in a project like this only begins with permission from the Museum or agreement on what loco to repair or replicate--you have Strasburg, financial support or sponsors, a shop to fix it (don't assume Strasburg has the shop space to spare just because it's across the street), bureaucratic requirements, a place to run it, rolling stock for it to pull, etc.

The first order of business, for example, for this hypothetical "letting a PRR steamer out to play" scenario is "does the Strasburg RR want to run any of those locos?"

I think if the operating agreement was long term and no "hooks" involved, it might be a good draw for Strasburg. I don't expect it to happen. Still, "never" is a time frame that usually means "possible, if an agreement can be made". Don't say the PRR collection will NEVER be rebuilt and run. It implies that museum leadership and needs will remain the same interminably, which we know is the first hole in that argument.

OTOH, Strasburg operating LIRR G5s #39, seems a greater liklihood in the near future, although not agreed upon.

Well said PRR Forever! For the record, I haven't played with balloons since I was 12; 28 years ago and I never wince at them...