Mike CT over at O-guage forums reports
"I recently visited Steamtown, Scranton, PA Oct 22 and 28. Here's the update.
Canadian National Mikado 3254
Currently, only life steam available. To conserve hours of operation. The fire is being dropped late Sunday. Thursday is fire up day for the weekend. Most likely no steam Monday through Thursday."

I know little about steamtown, but it seems hot topic here.
Does anyone else find it odd that a place dedicated to steam won't have any 4 days a week?

I don't recall steamtown operating steam Mon-Thur, or ever operating passenger trains Monday or Tuesday for that matter. I recall even years ago being there without steam on the yard shuttle on a Wednesday, and I think that may have been before the 26 was taken out of service. It's not realistic to run steam 7 days a week, they have to have boiler wash at some point.

That is correct - trains have traditionally not run on Mon - Tues and in the off season (not summer) any weekday trains are diesel powered. Save the steam for when most of the visitors come - on the weekends. Actually makes very good sence - especially in these times of limited funding for the Parks.

Several things I'd imagine are being taken into consideration here.

Not the least of which I think are the number of service days (no, I don't know how many) left on the 3254. Since will still be some time before the B&M engine steams, the 3254 is it for mainline trains.

Also, patronage is lighter on the "short" rides weekdays during the non-summer months. It's probably easier to get volunteers for weekend dates as well.

I'd expect to see the 26 in service sometime next year, which will then decrease the number of service days the '54 burns up on non-excursion runs.

I always advocated dropping the "Steamtown" name in favor of something different like "Railroading in America" or something like that. Would be more inclusive to historic diesel era operations and, quite frankly, sound more professional. That's an issue much higher than any pay grade I've ever held though...

Dave

Might change their statement too
"Feel the heat from the firebox. Hear the bell and whistle. Smell the hot steam and oil. Feel the ground vibrate under your feet. See the one ton drive rods turn the wheels. Hear the chuff-chuff-chuff of the smokestack. Today, you can relive the era of steam as the engines come back to life. The cinders, grease, oil, steam, people and stories of railroading have returned."
If I was visitor that is what I would expect on any given day. No they don't need big steam everyday, a little tank would do, and I guess they are working on one. But still, to be down to one working engine?
But if this is the way it's always been, then I guess it's no big news or deal. I just don't think any opertunities should be passed up for introducing new generations to steam, they will be the ones to keep it alive in the years to come.

I wonder if 3254 runs out of service time before 3713 is ready, will Steamtown look to lease an engine from somewhere, and also what would be the most likely candidate?

113.

Just sayin'.

Howard P.
Rabble Rouser, NY

What ever happened to that F40PH that pushes steam locomotives upgrade? Wasn't it last seen somewhere in Washington state?

PC

If Steamtown were to lease a mainline steam locomotive should #3254 run out of "service time" before #3713 is in service? Probably a good possibility!

Realistically, there aren't too many logical choices. Best scenario would likely be for some "guest appearances" by Reading & Northern 4-6-2 #425. Who can forget "the show" #425 put on at Steamtown during her visit there during (and following) the Grand Opening. Admittedly, #425 would need a diesel helper on heavier trains out of Scranton--but she'd be better than no steam at all.

Jerry Jacobson's ex-CPR 4-6-2 #1293 and ex-LS&I 2-8-0 #33 aren't doing much these days. Would be nice to see one or both of them get some exercise on the hill out of Scranton. Either could handle most of the mainline trains that the Park Service operates today.

And perhaps a "far out" choice, one of Henry Posner's QJ Chinese 2-10-2's. At least it would be steam!

But if I had to place a "bet", if #3254 goes down before #3713 enters service--the Park Service will wind up using "historic diesels" on its mainline excursions. Or worse yet, cancelling them all together.

Frederick G. Bailey

History repeats itself.

An Anthracitation by Phoebe Snow, circa 1986:

Upon these tracks is seldom seen,
The 23 and 17.
For Steamtown now, ‘tis sad to say
Is “Diesel Village U.S.A.”

(attributed to MGK)

Steve

I think a lot of people don't know how much more work & time it takes to prepare a steam locomotive to run than a diesel. It also costs about three times as much for fuel & water for steam. If you bank a coal fire over night on a steam locomotive flue time ticks away. with an oil burning steam loco time stops when you shut off the fuel. A diesel doesn't have to worry about that.
A steam Locomotive IS a rolling work in progress. There is always something to fix or adjust.
There are historic diesels that are pretty rare & cool.
Most tourist types could care less if a steam engine or diesel is up front. Just the foamers would complain/
There are more diesel qualified crews than steam.
I dont blame Steam Town at all.

Dave Huffman

I think we all know diesels are more expensive, and I know steam is harder to run, but I watched TVRM run steam all day long, all week long, year after year, and I don't remember one being totaly empty, but I saw several with one or two people on board, If they can do it....

While the mean time between failures is much longer for a diesel, the costs of repair parts for a diesel are not getting cheaper. I suspect (perhaps P. Cook could advise) that the best supported diesel plant out there is the EMD late 567-early 645 series engines. If your running an Alco and something goes wrong, you probably have a dead hulk on you hands.

I think the costs of steam operations is in direct relation to the experience level of operating steam. In other words, an operation running steam three days a week will be ahead of those running one day a week, who are ahead of those running once a month. As mentioned, steam is a continual maintenance dynamic, and experience will help crews keep ahead of known repair/replacement issues. We can look to the Strasburg and D&S for strategies to keep abreast with the ongoing maintenance.

In the short term, yes, diesels are cheaper. The question then becomes are you able to build your operations because you have scenery, or somewhere to go to, or that you have steam to make up for other elements that are lacking in your operation. If you are going to invest in steam, either on your own line or as a traveling show, the first and most important element is to invest in the people who are going to make it happen, whether paid or volunteer staff. I would suspect that the steam costs of operations with a well motivated staff are going to be lower than for those whose workers are lacking motivation or interest (ie: having crew shortages). That investment in personnel is large, and not easily defined or costed, but it's essential for the continued operation of steam engines anywhere.

Look at the winners out there and compare them to those doing poorly. I suspect the answer may be there.

(edit) BTW, investment in personnel does not mean a paid staff situation--some of the most successful museum/steam operations out there are volunteer driven.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

Roots blower 645 engined EMD locomotives presently are one of the best compromises between parts availability and reliability in the older locomotive population. Unfortunately for the operating museums, the shortlines and regionals all know that very well and as a result they are still quite pricey.

PC

I am involved at the Monticello Railway Muesum. We started running only steam in the early 70's. Later we added diesel to the mix & finally became only diesel operated for several years.
We just returned Southern Railway #401 to operation. We are planning on running #401 one weekend a month next season. The main reason being higher cost to run steam among others. We have plenty of experience with steam operations with volunteers that come from the Grand Canyon, C&TS & D&S plus many people who were trained at our operation among others.
There are many parts that you can't just run out to NAPA & pick up. Many parts are made in house or bought from the small deticated manufactures in the steam industry.
The cost of things like injectors to supply water to a boiler can cost over $20,000 a piece. Some things like stop check valves from defunct companys like Nathan just have to be rebuilt as new ones aren't being made any more. Sure these things can be custom built but the cost is sky high. This is the reason many operations have cut back on steam operation. It is important to make the equipment last as long as they can.
It is very satisfying to bring a steam locomotive back to life & operate it. I highily recomend it.

Dave Huffman