It is my sad duty to report that the Port Huron & Detroit business car Castleblayney has been moved to the "scrap line". As most of you know, this historic car was the first heavyweight Pullman business car ordered and bought by the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway in 1927. It was designated car #1, Richmond.
The car had been deteriorating slowly while at the Gold Coast Museum. Had my mother known that this was to be her fate, I don’t think she would have donated the car. Unfortunately, a number of factors made it very difficult to save it, let alone move it.
The only items saved are the nameplates off the car and the keys to the observation door.
The money initially raised to transport the business car was used to purchase and move PH&DRR caboose #62 (originally as delivered new #52). This is now resting on the property of the Port Huron & Detroit Railroad Historical Society.

I took these photos of the car three of years ago and it did not look anything like a lost cause. A little rough around the edges maybe, but not beyond a save.

What gives? Something that I missed? I photographed the worst spot on the roof (being above the kitchen wasn't surprising) and it wasn't even close to beyond repair.

Mike

The Budd fluting looks worth saving, along with the stainless effects on the porch.

Those C&O 5.5x10 OSH trucks look tasty as well..........

T7 does not like this. Is that car really so bad and so worthless that it is just going to be scrapped? Is that what museums do? Are we so desperate to move a caboose that we cut up a heavyweight business car? Really?

Whomever originally gave this car to the museum should jump up and down and make a fuss. This is not good stewardship of a historic item. This is not how it is supposed to work.

I sort-of remember the discussion on RYPN some time ago...they sold/traded/gave the car to the Port Huron & Detroit Railroad Historical Society and they wanted the trucks to go under the Chapel Hill. But the Port Huron & Detroit Railroad Historical Society discovered that it was impossible to interchange that car to move it up north so they decided to scrap it and use the money to move a caboose. Lovely. Very historic minded of them.

T7

I was just going to say, I bet those trucks don't go into the scrap bin. I've never seen this car but C&O also had some 6x11 6 wheel OSH cars. As much as I like my Budd built cars that fluting was a horrible thing to do to a heavyweight. And at great risk of repeating myself, it appears that yet another decent car has "bought the farm" because someone is terrified of those bad old non rotating end bearings. You remember the ones they still use under their own locomotives, etc.......

...or is there something more sinister here and the NREC bearings was just a handy excuse to take the trucks and run? I would guess that the car was worth the effort to install a nice set of AP-EEs.

No one is being sinister here, save maybe Gold Coast for disposing of an asset that was given to them in better than working order and for which they have not been a good steward. I suspect that if they wanted to allow a truck swap to take place on their property somewhere and allow the PH&D museum group some time to get ducks in a row (which seems to be within their capabilities based on information I have), the NREC wheels could be replaced with some to get the car out of there. The car owner understandably wants his trucks, but I hate to see the Richmond sacrificed in toto for that end. The car is privately owned after being sold by GCRM from my understanding. PH&DHS does not currently have title to the car.

Apparently the car was within days of moving when the friendly railroad of the South banned those nasty NREC bearings from moving on their lines - unless they are moving on an Amtrak train at 79 per. Sheer utter panic from absolute ignorance - "we don't know about passenger cars so their bearings of the same design under our older EMD power must be radioactive."

I know railroads are in business to make money, but come on... in the interest of this new era of political civility, I'll stop there.

Hmmm...I always, well atleast the last year or two, wanted a C&O business car. Wonder what the Gold Coast would want for it...

Ever heard that old saying "if you have to ask, you can't afford it"? Got property? Got a trailer or flatcar and cranes? Got a bottomless bank account?

Just out of curiosity, when did it become necessary to have a bottomless bank account to own a business car ? I often hear the old line, how expensive it is to own a heavyweight business car ( or any private car for that matter ) ... and how it is an endless tub of money... If for the moment, we are talking about an Amtrak certified heavyweight style car, where did the evolution of this idea get started ?

In comparisons to an old restored air plane, a ninety foot 90 year yacht, or any other unique object, the cost structure of owning any large object no matter of it's type is what it is... A heavyweight operational car, requires basics such as insurance, storage, a maintenance budget, adequate replacement parts, etc as the basics. ( as do the other objects mentioned ) Operation of the car comes with some skills in logistics, some patience, and overall is not that complex. Mainline operation on Amtrak has a pre-established fair tariff... Switching tariffs general exist and although significantly higher than the Beebe era, and although access is much more limited, overall the costs are still not beyond someone who has a very good income... ( not per say a bottomless bank account )

Unfortunately ( in my opinion ) the term private car, somehow got lost or misunderstood, when a sleeper, coach, or a lounge car became known as a private car. A private car ( going back to the Mansion on Rails concept ) belonged to the Carnegie's, Morgan's, Hutton's, Huntington's and the like.... A private car was not intended to make money, or for that matter pay for itself, it was a asset of a family... Let's say equal to a privately owned plane owned by a well off gentleman or lady today...

With a good understanding of the traps of ownership, the traps of taking on a project that is not financially viable, ( which a big book could be written about. and which might have caused this financial myth ) and the operational complexities, owning a heavyweight car, is not so financially distressing...Unfortunately emotional decisions get made ( in lieu of well thought out smart decisions ) leading to likely 100's of unfinished projects across the country.. Unfortunately, ( again in my opinion ), another era has mostly passed... an era where a 1980's generation of older men, who could afford heavyweights, either passed on, or the fun wore off. ( plus owning a car became mechanically much more complex than it initially was ) .. Therefore the percentage of heavyweight cars that are certified, has significantly diminished, replaced by a higher quantity of PS or Budd cars.. Plenty of heavyweights have been donated to museums, or left to rot track side, or found a second life on a tourist railroad...

At the moment ( I believe ) there are only two heavyweights that are certified on Amtrak ( that are privately owned ) , that were built as a private car. One from Pullman, the other from ACF.. Given the quantity of cars produced, and the fact it is 2011, ( with one car being built in 1916 and the other in 1922 ) .. It is my belief that it is likely the mere fact that many individuals have never heard of owning a car, that likely hold back these statistics, along with the fact, that cars over 90 plus years, are hard to find that are not just shells of their former greatness.. With only about 70 AAPRCO members representing Amtrak certified cars, and a smaller handful of owners who do not belong to AAPRCO who do own a certified car, you can see, the number of operational cars is not very great.

Just an opinion.... as I don't believe it's money that inevitably holds these numbers back.. its the reduced access for cars to run, along with the inability to communicate effectively to the general population that owning a car is even an option....


Dean Levin

Despite the ray of sunshine offered a few posts prior to this which seems cast in the "never do anything ever under any circumstances" light, I say to anyone who is interested in this car, go for it. You don't know unless you try.

First, to clear up a misconception about the caboose/Castleblayney deal: The Society only made the purchase after it was learned that the car couldn't be interchanged out of GCM.

This historic car is worth saving. However it can happen, a consortium, a time-delay deal with GCM, a swap and ship with the current owner, these options are still possible. The window is open until late this month. Ozark has the equipment, as I'm sure local crane companies, that the GCM has connections with, do. It would be a shame to see this lost forever.

It seems that people give up on cars too quick after they learn that they cannot be interchanged. In truth the cost of shipping that car from FL to Michigan on its own wheels would be more then you would imagine. When compared to loading it on a TTX flat and shipping it up there is not as bad as you might think. I have heard of a couple examples that were surprisingly reasonable. But for some reason nobody will even consider that option.

Do try calling the guy at Ozark and see what he thinks...he has some experience in such matters.

Thanks T7. Initially, CSX had proffered a ship-by-rail amount of $9K which we raised and had ready to cut when the move got snafued. The owner is willing to sell the car-body for cheap; the real cost is in crane rental and transportation north by special flatbed, etc.

I think I'm missing something here, but why not ship the car on it's wheels to Michigan, detruck it and ship the trucks back? It would only requre cranes on one end and you could probably get by with one crane (depending on if shop trucks and rail storage are available). Alternate trucks are still required, but if the car is going to wind up at a non-operating display, odds are it'll be craned and moved again.

Well it's a thought anyway.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT

So is this car at the museum or located somewhere else? Is it owned by someone other then the museumm and how come it can't be saved? Business cars are becoming a rare breed these days. Is there a contact at the museum to see if she can be saved from scrap? It would be a real shame to loose a business car without the effort in finding a new home for her.