Yes, I spotted that issue, but wasn't sure it was true. What an unusual turn of events. PTHT had set its big eyes on the parcel now super-Wawa, which contained some beat-up buildings not related to railroad history, and some foundations and ruins which were. They aimed to acquire the parcel and put a fairly sprawling (by current standards) railway museum there. I was suitably impressed with the ambition. Sadly, Wawa put an option on the land first, aiming to build a "Super Wawa", or 5000 s.f. gas station + mini-mart+food, kinda like a Sheetz as far as I can tell.

PTHT resisted the project with an emotional zeal, tying to other community resistance to an overlit 24x7 gas/food bazaar in a small quiet town.
http://www.allbusiness.com/north-americ ... 572-1.html
http://articles.philly.com/2005-04-04/n ... als-stores

The citizens who showed up were mostly in favor, but some arguments were telling.
http://www.railfan.net/lists/rshsdepot- ... 00028.html
Some thought it would require demolishing the depot.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12215
That proved to be untrue; Wawa did not buy the depot/mainline areas. They did buy the turntable/pit areas adjacent to the depot area; however their site design spared those areas, and Wawa donated that land to the PTHT.

Follow the bouncing ball. The Township owns the depot and trackway. Wawa donated the turntable area to the PTHT. Not the township. This odd turn of events gives the PTHT land 50 feet away on which to move the equipment, if push comes to shove.

But of course, if pushing is coming to shoving, you've got a much more serious problem than property lines.


"When your enemy goes to ground, give him no ground." - Sun Tzu

If they want to find faults in your organization, give them none to find.

It's certainly the case that this is a fairly active group that does quite a lot. That is evident by the aforelinked activity on railfan.net. As with most groups I suspect what is posted represents only a small fraction of total activity. If you look at the work done on the plywood-side CNJ caboose, you can see structural repair had been done separate from what the boy scouts did. This group is quite capable. However it's also true that for all that work, only a few pieces have been painted. I would think if the group was painting about 3 pieces a year, that would considerably change their perception in the community. Yes I know how much work that is.

An internet search might show www.pemberton-twp.com as the township's web site. And I am betting that if you clicked on the government link, a drop down menu might show the Mayor and township council links. That is if I were internet savy.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Aside from the local political forces it is probably safe to say if all of the equipment was nicely painted and displayed in a way that discourages being used as a jungle gym it would probably be a lot less of a target.

I'm not so sure of that.

I heard the town's side of the story today and I think it is safe to say that the core of this issue isn't about rust. I am not going to get into a he said, she said, but suffice it to say this is political and seems to be more about human nature and less about trains.

It's local power at its best/worst.

Hey Tom! Come on up and grab a paint brush. You aren't that far from us. I traveled down to your place last year to see what your operation was like. I thought that maybe I could chip in a few days to help restore some stuff. But all of your stuff is done (by a paid staff) and you run excursions that have more people than needed to accomplish the task.

So come on up some Saturday and grab a wire brush and some sand paper and help us restore our equipment.

As many have said in other posts, when the equipment is restored and running, you have more than enough people that want to take a ride. But find the true preservationist that is willing to come out and gett dirty sanding and paintiung the equipment. That is a whole different story. And our small dedicated staff of volunteers is doing the best we can with what we've got. Remember that we work off of donations from visitors to the museum.

And the condition of the equipment has never been an issue until now.

Let me explain:

We not only have a dozen pieces of equipment to restore and maintain, we have a 1.5 mile walking trail that we maintain. Then there is the station itseslf that we maintain as well as the grounds around the facility that needs grass mowed, weeds pulled and if a tree falls on the trail, we cut it up and keep the trail clear. And then when the occasional hunter decides it is OK for him to kill a deer and gut it on the trail, we clean that up as well.

Then there is the original rail yard next door that we have excavated the 1800s ash pit, the turntable pit to dig out, the engine house footings to locate, the freight house footings we found, and many mnore things for us to do. So by all means, feel free to come on out and give us a hand. Anybody nearby can come out and get dirty.

And if anybody has any questions about our situation with the township, I'd appreciate it if you ask before you post some old picture or comment about it. I'll answer all questions that I can.


Later!
Mr. Ed

I guess it's all about politics, isn't it? With the depot, while CSX has changed it stance and started working with us (although slowly), the board of selectmen in East Brookfield want the depot gone, citing it as a hazard to public safety in it's current condition. They're right, but if they help us save it, we can take care of the public safety part easy! What worries me about this group is that there may be politics playing against the group. You could have all the support in the world, but if you got the town that you're in wanting something done, then try and get their support. Maybe team up with the Pemberton School Department to give field trips to the students and educate them about the museum. If the mayor sees that the students are learning something and support the museum, then he might change his stance. Like Dennis Lebeau said, "The old guy who knows what he's talking about gets ignored, but they listen to the kid who knows whats what!"

We do school trips many times in the year. We also do senior tours, environmental group tours, etc. This is why we have two wagons with seating for about 20 people each that we take down the trail behind tractors. We have a Christmas hay ride where the fee gets you a ride, a hot chocloate/tea/coffee and a donut. We also have Santa on hand for the kids. It doesn't make any money but it is very popular. We had to miss it last year because the contractor doing the grant work had the station closed. We also go to many civic functions and talk about the history of the township and surrounding areas. We do genealogical searches and we have many lists on the local cemeteries to help people find lost relatives. Oh, we do more than our fair share of community service for the township. Now, if we could only convince the naysayers of our value. But many just see old trains and think the worst.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Does a single person, the Mayor, have the power to carry out the eviction? I hope there is a check and balance here to help avoid a do or die situation. Ed - can the society owned property hold your existing equipment? Wish I could lend a hand, as I think you all have a good start on a nice museum up there. Best of Luck.

Edit: Adding to my post, might there be a way to build track from the PTHT owned property to the station display line to rotate out rolling stock so that more appealing pieces could be out front while others are readied away from the public eye? I was looking at the Google earth view from above. If the town was upset at new cars/locos on town land, perhaps a move to the PTHT owned land would comply with their wishes? ...or I'm kind of thoinking there is more than that involved here.

Mike Stillwell
Buena Vista, VA.

I do not know if the mayor has the power to evict us so it will be taken up at the council meeting on Wednesday. And there probably more to the situation than can be made public since we do not know what is in a person's mind.

We had every intention of putting the 45 tonner at the head end of the platform track with the restored boxcar next followed by the N5c which is (was) going to get a better coat of paint. This was going to be our display consist of what a freight looked like at the closing days of freight on the line. If we stay, we will eventually will have a platform track with two turnouts, one at the station end, and one near the telegraph shed that will feed the freight siding with the old passing track in the middle being left vacant for the walking trail. Then off of the siding, we will have another turnout into the yard for storage of the equipment that needs work. Now since the hopper and gondola haven't seen paint since they were new, they might be mixed into the consist. Remember we are trying to show how an operating railyard looked. And as we all know, freight cars didn't get washed or repainted on any regular schedule. The flatcar will need to be redecked since Roebling Steel put two thick steelplates on top with coil holders over each truck. The Tidewater tank car will most likely be repainted since it has such a unique logo.

Later!
Mr. Ed

if they are so upset about the looks, go nab some spray paint and go.

When its time to do the right restoration you will just airnail the paint and rust off.
Post some signs "do not climb on the equipment" and put some fence around the equipment.

I am cheering the trust president especially for the plymouth aquisition, the mayor can frothspout all he wants for all I care, but based on that article its just a lot of hot air running around.

Interesting that the Trust president is a former mayor so he's got some clout so you know he will be able to bean bag back on any political rantings. Somebody will just have to show the mayor the Dick Jensen episode and maybe that will flip his tune in a hurry.

At tonight's council meeting the question of our lease, which expired June 5th, will come up. They will either renew it as is or make modifications, or just let the eviction notice stand. And we are just days away from being turned over to the county who values history and can better fund that history as was stated by the mayor.

Stay tuned. I will let you know how we make out tonight.

Later!
Mr. Ed

If this article is correct http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/burlington_county_times_news/pemberton-twp-still-at-odds-with-historic-trust-over-rail/article_f10f2221-34b5-5251-bad8-6d216292e4a0.html then the PTHT does not own the land but has an easement for eventual parking. By the tone of this article it sounds like Wawa brought this conflict to a head not the town. It would appear either the PTHT did not understand what rights it actually had or purposely ignored them. See how they apparently ignored the town when they brought in the last locomotive when specifically told not to, it sounds like they broke the camel's back with 65 tons or so of locomotive.

Disclaimer: I am not a layer nor do I play one on TV

I was able to locate the relevant land record dated 5/27/2008 which is indeed an easement from Wawa to PTHT. Reading the legalese of the document this seemed the relevant passage:

"... for the sole purpose of ingress and egress from and to the Museum property, including the right, at the Grantee's sole cost and expense, to construct additional parking spaces for the use of Museum guests and invitees, and for the preservation, examination and display of such historical items and/or remnants that are currently present within said easement area. There will be no structure other than parking lot and related appurtenances constructed in the easement area without the written consent of Grantor. ..."

I see nothing in the easement document the prohibits the storage of equipment, just buildings beyond parking facilities. However it is implied that only currently present artifacts can be 'presented'. Vague on the point of a locomotive. I supposed you could say it was 'parked' there ;^)

To view the easement go to:
http://press.co.burlington.nj.us/PRESS/ ... x?op=basic
Go to the "By Name" tab
In Last Name put "PEMBERTON HISTORIC" (without quotes) and click search
Four documents are returnd all for the same date. All four are the same document.
The important stuff is on page 2.

Nice disclaimer Chris but you left off-but I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night! And your explanation of the easement is right on the mark regarding it's use.

I can not attest to what the mayor said to the reporter. I am sure that was said in a private interview. But about the stuff he claims was said in the meeting. Well let's just say he has a vivid imagination. I have spoken with the many people who came out to support the trust and they are as puzzled as many are about where he got much of his information.

Wawa was informed that the 45 ton (not 65, not 100 ton) GE centercab locomotive is not on their property. They checked their plans and found out we were right and sent us a letter saying they were dropping the matter. Now that's a good neighbor!

And we are closer to getting turned over to the county since the contractor that is doing the restoration work is down to the punch list. This will blow over since there is so much riding on the transfer for the county and the township.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Well. As the geeks say: Garbage in, garbage out. (rely on wrong information; make wrong statements.)

That has been a running theme in this. EVERY external source of data has consistently said the same thing: The stuff looks junky and dilapidated. And the group has retorted, we all know the refrain, let's say it together...

That's not the problem. It's politics.

That also is a pattern I have seen before: the group which has a fundamental problem they've gotten very practiced at ignoring. And dismissing. And they've got a whole strange logic to dismissing it. And this logic is reinforced within the group by repeating: a cozy echo chamber.

This is absolutely maddening for outsiders: How can they see things different than everyone else sees them? The beliefs they hold are plainly wrong. "Sigh, we tried but there's no reasoning with this group."

And so the group hops from problem to problem, always with an explanation of how they've dodged a bullet or cleared a hurdle; but the problems keep coming and they never quite figure out why. I don't know, maybe that hypothetical example doesn't apply here. But I've seen any number of places where it does.