Greetings,
>
> I picked this up on another list. Would anyone be interested in a
SD40F-2? If
> so, read on.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Terry Wellman
> St. Charles, IL

Sean Graham-White reports in the below post that the Maersk Sealand SD40F-2
will be scrapped -- apparently after its terminal opening duties have
concluded.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Graham-White"
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: SDP40F alert!

> ALERT, ALERT, ALERT
>
> This is an important message about locomotive preservation.
>
> Amtrak ordered 150 SDP40Fs in the early 1970s -- these were the first
> diesel locos they ever ordered. Almost all have gone to scrap and
> only a few are left. 18 went to the Santa Fe and were convered into
> SDF40-2s ... and of those, only 17 are left.
>
> BNSF is parting out 16 SDF40-2s at Topeka currently - in preparation
> for SCRAP!!! If any museum you know of is or was ever interested in
> getting one of these this is the LAST CHANCE.
>
> There are only 19 left -- the sixteen at Topeka, two at Pueblo for
> EMD (and no one will ever get their hands on those), plus the one
> painted for Maersk (and it will go to scrap too, just a few weeks
> after the others).
>
> Oh, there are three ex-Santa Fe F45s also available -- probably for
> sale though.
>
> Please forward this information on to any parties, museums, lists
> that you think might be relevant or interested. Serious, interested
> parties can contact me off list -- alasgw@interaccess.com -- for BNSF
> contact information.
>
> Sean Graham-White

twellman@ameritech.net

No message, just letting others know the REAL subject. At least one F40ph has been formally saved (three nore hopefully). We can debate the preservation worthiness of the SDP40F until the cows come home.



lner4472@bcpl.net

>We
> can debate the preservation worthiness of
> the SDP40F until the cows come home.

Sandy,

I don't think there's anything to debate about the historical significance of the SDP40F. The question is whether or not a museum such as IRM, Minnesota Transportation Museum or the California State Railroad Museum can persuade BNSF to donate a unit or two.

With all the "Pooches" gone, and between one and three F40PH's saved, it's time for someone with a museum connection to act NOW!


kevin.r.gillespie@verizon.net

> I don't think there's anything to debate
> about the historical significance of the
> SDP40F. The question is whether or not a
> museum such as IRM, Minnesota Transportation
> Museum or the California State Railroad
> Museum can persuade BNSF to donate a unit or
> two.

> With all the "Pooches" gone, and
> between one and three F40PH's saved, it's
> time for someone with a museum connection to
> act NOW!

GEE! Now THERE'S a locomotive that the "National" Museum of Transport in St. Louis should go after!


schwartzsj@juno.com

I am playing a litle bit of the devil's advocate, but also have a more serious intent...

I will question the historical significance of an SDP40F.

Is there anything that a preserved SDP40F can interpret or give to the public that is unique?

Does it have more than "foamer" value? If so, what is it and how would you define or defend it in a grant application? What collection would it best fit in?

I could make some arguments either way, but I'd love to hear some thoughts.

Rob Davis

> Sandy,

> I don't think there's anything to debate
> about the historical significance of the
> SDP40F. The question is whether or not a
> museum such as IRM, Minnesota Transportation
> Museum or the California State Railroad
> Museum can persuade BNSF to donate a unit or
> two.

> With all the "Pooches" gone, and
> between one and three F40PH's saved, it's
> time for someone with a museum connection to
> act NOW!


trains@robertjohndavis.com

> Is there anything that a preserved SDP40F
> can interpret or give to the public that is
> unique?

Actually Rob I kinda agree with you--I think the F40PH is the more important by far. We save too much that's odd and not enough that's typical. But for the sake of discussion here's a few ways to interpret an SDP40F:

1. The birthing pains of America's first national passenger railroad. Lash it up to one of those eye-hurting rainbow consists, ideally duplicating a specific, documented Amtrak consist. Use it as a springboard for discussing and debating the role of public funding in transportation.

2. If one wanted to be really snarky it would make a marvellous centerpiece for an exhibit on the concept of risk and the statistics of safety. Cover all sides of the old "was the SDP40F safe?" debate and let viewers draw their own conclusions.

3. Use it as part of an exhibit on industrial design and the diesel locomotive--covering the influence of the automotive industry stylists, functional considerations, etc. Of course, an F45 or F40PH would represent the cowl style just as well.

> > I will question the historical significance
> of an SDP40F.
> Is there anything that a preserved SDP40F
> can interpret or give to the public that is
> unique?

> Does it have more than "foamer"
> value? If so, what is it and how would you
> define or defend it in a grant application?

This is my argument, too. There is nothing unique enough or significant enough about these things to warrant a heroic preservation effort, though the rivet counters will have a fit.

Let's not forget that BNSF has already donated several F45/FP45 units to museums. Why insult their generosity by demanding they make more donations of similar units?

To the public, those units are identical to the SDP40F, and efforts to point out the few tiny differences (and trying to make a case that they are of any importance) would make most people's eyes glaze over pretty quickly. It would also reinforce arguments that many of our preservation efforts are less about history and more about personal infatuation with and attachment to the hardware.

Rob,

I'm not a huge diesel fan, but I can honestly say I would like to see one of these engines preserved, because I've never actually seen one, but would like the opportunity to some day. I'm out on the West Coast, and I doubt many people have even heard of these engines let alone seen one. The younger generation especially who think of the Genesis locomotives as the only Amtrak engine. Sure the thing isn't all that special, but you can't go for the gold all the time. It may just be a crappy engine now, but in fifty years, I'd guarantee you people would be glad it was saved.

My Two Cents, Taylor

thrush@smt-net.com

> ... It would also reinforce arguments
> that many of our preservation efforts are
> less about history and more about personal
> infatuation with and attachment to the
> hardware.

Not to mention the fact that locomotives more frequently are the object of the fetish rather than a crusty old wood boxcar which might up and leave us in some whimsical act of deterioration.

Wish we preserved the legacy of the railroad workers and suppliers who made the industrial engine work at least as well as we did the hardware we all focus on.

Bill



staybolt@bellsouth.net

Since I'm the one who started this thread by saying I thought it was not a subject of debate as to whether an SDP40F should be saved, I'll tell you my reason why.

The locomotive was specifically designed to be a passenger locomotive that could be sold off to the freight railroads in the event that Amtrak was abolished. You will recall that the Nixon Administration during whose term of office they were ordered was looking for a way to get rid of Amtrak. The E and F units Amtrak had purchased or leased were mostly falling apart. The vast majority of well maintained units were Santa Fe's F units,which and Santa Fe was taking all of them back for conversion into CF7's.

Facing a motive power crisis, Amtrak took the only locomotives that the Federal Government was willing to bankroll, namely those that could be sold off into freight service. What followed was what usually happens when someone tries to take the cheapest possible alternative. They ended up spending more money to correct their mistake and obtain the locomotie Amtrak needed all along, the F40PH.

Since there are those even today who are trying to run Amtrak on the cheap, I think one should be saved to remind future generations of such folly.

BNSF has indeed been generous in donating all the FP45's. I think that only one of these units should be asked for, but one should be saved.

kevin.r.gillespie@verizon.net

In an ideal world, I envision ONE of each diesel locomotive make and model preserved somewhere. The tough part is to deciding what to save. Two diesel locos may appear identical to all but the most dedicated buff, but one may have a different prime mover or some other internal refinement that makes it more historically "significant" than the other.

Except for the very earliest diesels, the rest were all mass-produced and not uniquely identifiable with a specific railroad, as were steam locomotives. Yes, automobiles were mass-produced too, and people still love them. But it takes a BIG garage to park a diesel that, after all, may look exactly like hundreds of others.

I'd hate to see museums get into a preservation frenzy, sinking scarce resources into each "last" Electro-Motive SDFP-XXetc...

tmanz@afo.net

It is wonderful to see us discussing this rationally, based on interpretive value, rather that focusing on a save everything and anything attitude. Owning a artifact like a SDP40F in no minor undertaking. Particularly if you add related artifacts like a train set, or other Amtrak locomotives to make this a complete display.

So along that line, is any museum preserving Amtrak or other “modern” railroad passenger history? I know the Illinois Railroad Museum at Union is saving a Metra Commuter set.

I wonder if it is time to have a “Amtrak Historic Collection” somewhere. Amtrak in something like 30 years old, and for many is the only railroad passenger service they have seen. Like some have noted, if this is desirable, this may be the moment to put such a collection together. It could be a wonderful display for one of the preserved “Union Station” sites.

Randy Hees


http://www.spcrr.org
hees@ix.netcom.com

> I think its too late. While the Fp-40 was the engine for a lot of years, there was also the early days of those "falling-apart" E's and F's.

Even they are limited and if they served ATsF or some other road from say the mid 50's to 1971 and then Amtrak until the mid 70's.. its probably more appropriate to paint them for the road they were built for rather than the one that inherited them.

Amtrak just sold the last of the FL-9's.. my unsterstanding is they'll be painted for new road. Even w/ Amtrak, much is missing.

superheater@beer.com

> So along that line, is any museum preserving
> Amtrak or other “modern” railroad passenger
> history? I know the Illinois Railroad Museum
> at Union is saving a Metra Commuter set.

IRM has indeed saved a three-car train of CNW/Metra bi-level cars (BTW, this train has a total capacity of around 475!!), along with two F7's that pulled cars like this during the 1950's-1970's. As far as I know, it is our hope to also save a Metra F40C. These locomotives are currently in service, and (I think) in somewhat less modified state than SDP40F's; however, relevantly, they are extremely similar to SDP40F's in design. NORTRAN, for whom the F40C's were built, took the Amtrak design and made a few changes (like stainless-steel side panels) to create the F40C.

Frank Hicks

P.S. Has anyone considered the problems of converting an SDP40F back to Amtrak configuration? Certainly possible, but a good deal of work nonetheless. As Santa Fe freight engines, they're not all that significant.

fullparallel@wideopenwest.com

> Amtrak just sold the last of the FL-9's.. my
> unsterstanding is they'll be painted for new
> road. Even w/ Amtrak, much is missing.

I think we'll be seeing a number of FL-9's properly preserved. Whether any would ever wear Amtrak paint is open to question. I would think the original New Haven colors are more likely.

Anyone up for an early 70's yellow nose?

;-)

Rob

trains@robertjohndavis.com