I found this on a website the photo is of 790 from 1/1/1940



Now this photo I found too, IC 733 Paducah KY - 1950s - {Steve Wydeck Collection}

I am a bit cautious about critiquing paint jobs. Nothing beats empirical data, and for many artifacts one must zero-in on a time period as things changed.

I was among the armchair critics who couldn't believe the Lehigh Valley NE caboose at Steamtown was painted red with the Route of the Black Diamond lettering. Everyone knew that was wrong. They were wine red. Even the model rr companies made then that way.

Buuuuuuuuuuut...

Lately, a few folks have begun to seriously investigate these cars. And you know what, the color used at Steamtown is a much better representation than the wine red conventional wisdom "knew" was "right."

As far as #790 goes, any offer of correction should be documented by year, and either paint charts or photographic evidence. Just saying it isn't right doesn't cut it.

And I am all for right. I still cringe at NKP Berks with the yellow "circus" bell, but right is right.

Rob

Why worry about what the correct paint scheme, which none of us has ever saw in our life time. as long as the locomotive isn't painted Hot Pink !! I think they did a nice job.

Question to Bruce, Would or could this locomotive ever operate again?

I, for one, sweat the details of paint scheme, parts, etc. If this locomotive is representing the IC at a National Park, it should be done correctly. I believe this scheme is correct, by the way.

On the issue of outdoor displays, I'm certain others have voiced this opinion, but rotating the locomotives displayed indoors and outside on a monthly basis would keep them evenly sorted under the weather, and keep photographers and historians coming back to visit their "pet" engines. Keeping the GTW, Reading, and Union Pacific locomotives outdoors without so much as a weather shed, flies in the face of everything preservationists know.

Lastly, I'd like to see a short-list of locomotives scheduled for operational rehab, including #26, 3716, and others. I'd personally like to see the IC 790 and MEC 501 brought forth.

Don't you mean MEC 519?

Have it your way then, MEC 519!

Wouldn't mind seeing 501 working as well.

I found this color photo on a friends facebook page. It's of ICRR No 2034 a 4-6-2 .

True, but this isn't rocket science. The IC rebuilt 790 in 1945, and between 1945 and 1960 IC steam paint DIDN'T change. So bang: take any one of the thousands of good color photos of IC steam from the 1955-1961 period, and copy them. And hey, here's an idea: maybe ask a few people who might know ANYTHING about IC steam. Given an hour and I could have prevented the horrible lettering from 700 miles away, for free.




As I said, if anyone had bothered to email any one of the 10 or 20 IC steam experts that I know in IL and IA alone, the problem wouldn't BE a problem. Or rather, problems.

Specifically: the lettering's ALL wrong. Wrong style, wrong line weight, wrong size, and worst of all, wrong color. IC steam was lettered with aluminum leaf, not white paint (except for switch engines). Look at good color photos of IC steam and you can tell that the lettering is a light gray, NOT white. If you want to get picky, the mineral red they used for the cab roof doesn't seem to match any color photo that I have (and did they do the tender deck and slope sheet too?), and it doesn't look like they painted the smoke and fire boxes dark graphite. Who knows if the cab interior is green or not?

OK; maybe I shouldn't have said anything. I AM glad that Steamtown is taking care of their stuff, and I am really glad that they repainted 790. And that she's not pink. But for frak's sake, this is a Federal Institution that at least pays lip service to correct historical preservation, and which has FAR deeper pockets than most museums out there. Do they even KNOW the phone number to the Smithsonian? Have they ever heard of the internet, and railroad historical societies? Has anyone ever shown them a COLOR PICTURE BOOK? (I see lots of books in the photo of their gift shop: did they look through them?). In short, why did they NOT ASK FOR HELP?



Not for all of them it's not! Some were brass, and some were painted black too.

Ray,
Believe me, I cringe every time I walk by the engine.

I am asking you to send me whatever you have. I am doing all I can to get the 790 painted correctly but I am running up against an "educated expert". Send links, pics, phone numbers, whatever you have so that I can get this corrected and we can put a historically correct piece back on display.


Bruce

Ray,

Of course you should speak up, I didn't mean to imply otherwise, nor did I mean to cause any distress.

I have the unfortunate experience (actually more than one) of dealing with folks who had collected information on one arcane topic or another related to railroads, but who kept it under lock and key as if it were worth all the tea in China. Even when they knew a project was underway that they could help with, they chose to hold their information until later. They preferred to be expert who knew it all after the fact, but never the helping hand who could have made the project better when it counted. They were always ready to complain, but never ready to help. Eventually, one of them saw the light but by that time no one wanted anything to do with him.

I am NOT insinuating you belong in that category. And with Bruce's offer, you stand a chance of being able to influence the outcome. Go for it!

What I do wonder about is how many of us who do have information on a specific subject actually think about the best way to share it? I am in the process of reverse hoarding right now... I am more interested in seeing information available to all, rather than growing moldy in my basement. It's also an interesting exercise to see how much of what you hold really is unique.

If someone has a cache of material about ol' steamer such and such - and that locomotive is owned by a legit museum group (or maybe, even not) - donating your materials or copies of your materials to become part of the permanent record of the artifact is a valuable act.

Or, if you have enough, publish or self-publish it...

Bob Fischer's self-published CNJ steam book is an excellent example of sharing info. He collected more information about paint schemes, tenders and mechanical changes to CNJ steam than anyone in the past. And he went on mythbusting exercises to see if conventional wisdom about CNJ steam was right or wrong. And he put it all in his little spiral bound book which is now THE source for late-era CNJ steam research.

Your message can serve as a catalyst for others. The list of locomotives being painted at Steamtown is known and finite (as it is for other museums, as well). If anyone has info that can help the process of cosmetic information, share it before the fact. Maybe it will make a difference, maybe not, but at least the opportunity will be there.

All the best,

Rob

Let me add to this,

Now is the time. Right now, the engines are going through a cosmetic overhaul and for the people who care about how these engines should look, now is the time to bring your information to the front. Not after the painting is finished and say "that's not correct". I have put forth at meetings more than once that rail fans (yes, I admit that I am one) have a lot of information about the equipment that Steamtown has and it would behoove Steamtown to listen. After all, Steamtown is everybody's national park. Accurate paint jobs may not make much of a difference to non rail fans, but it does to the rail fan visitor. Lets all work together on this to make the park better.

I am willing to do my part. Are you?

Bruce Mowbray

Reading _Man,

Look in your message box.

"Would or could this locomotive ever operate again?"

Bruce knows more of the "would" aspect of this, though I do know it is very popular amongst the shop forces.

On the "could" side of things, ANY engine could operate. They simply require various quantities of "cubic" money. Boilers are often thought to be an end game, reality is that all to often institutions spend more money repairing a boiler than they would incur in replacing it. Running gear components are just metal parts, consumables really. Cylinders and valve chambers can be rebushed even if they have been sitting full of water assuming they have not frozen such as that 2-8-2 in florida. Even if they had cracked, weldment cylinders are very cheap compared to castings.

I read the account of that engine in it's thread and saw nothing that detoured my thoughts about it being rebuildable. There is NOTHING wrong with the manner in which the boiler was removed. Waistsheets were cut IN THE STEAM ERA as a means of removing the boiler, I have seen this on a number of preserved steamers some of which are operational. Rivets having been cut....they make more rivets everyday. The smokebox having been cut around the saddle, if you can full pen a boiler then one can full pen a smokebox. The delivery pipes, new welment out of sch 40 pipe and appropriately cut commercially available but weld pipe fittings.

Having said all that, in terms of the 790, it appears to be a relatively good locomotive. It does not appear to need anything that would be cost prohibitive or fiscally irresponsible when viewed in comparison to other available locomotives within the collection. The biggest obstacle is that of first course work, possibly replacement but this to can be overcome.

I greatly enjoyed the opportunity have "gone over it" in the course of doing the abatement work. I came out of the containment with a smile saying "it needs to run!".

Cheers, Jason

Hi Bruce!

Will do. Email me offlist at rtbsvrr69 @ yahoo.com, and I'll start passing you stuff. I'll also pass along notes to David Daisy, George Waltershausen, and Ted Richardson of the ICHS to see what they have that's quickly available.

Great....."educated expert". I've run across them while trying to deal with various model manufacturers. Did this "gentleman of expertise" wave original source material at them, or are they just going off hearsay?

Jason,

From what I have been told - and your post adds to this - the abatement project has been an opportunity to give these locomotives their most thorough "review" in years. Very interesting! Thanks for sharing the insight on #790.

Rob