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 Post subject: Pullman sleeper sash
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:26 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
I'm doing some glazing on a Pullman Plan 4022 sleeper, and it really looks like the Pullman Co. went out of their way to standardize windows, and I'm guessing that's true across many many sleepers. For instance all regular windows, outer and inner, take exactly the same size glass (25x28.5).

On this car, some outside (storm window) sash is missing entirely. Does anyone have dimensions or drawings of how those windows are fabricated? I could probably pull a sash out to reverse engineer it, but if it's available from the horse's mouth, better that.

Also what species of wood was likely to be used?


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman sleeper sash
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:42 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:40 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Downers Grove, IL
From us at the Pullman Library, Illinois Railway Museum:
Could you please supply the lot number or name of your car off list and we will look up the appropriate Pullman Drawing for that window. Usually we have the specification and drawing list for the majority of heavyweight (make that also lightweight) passenger cars which will list the drawing in the drawing list. The specification will give additional information on the windows construction and painting. Also, if you look up the IRM Group on Yahoo and contact Bob Kutella (trolleycar68), he can give detailed advice on making windows since he has assembled a wood shop that includes original wood car construction machinery, appropriately upgaded to safer procedures (not so in the 1920's!). We charge a nominal fee for copied material. Information and fees can be accessed through looking up the Pullman Library on the irm.org website. Good luck in your endeavors, and yes, IRM also does make their own windows from direct measurements. A manufacturer's drawing does take out a lot of the guesswork though. Sometimes those windows are not a direct replacement for the original if since replaced by inferior materials and construction. We ran into that on making interior window replacements for a 1906 Pullman cafe-coach, Boston & Maine no. 1094.
Sincerely, Ted Anderson, IRM Pullman Library curator

_________________
Ted Anderson, curator
Pullman Library
Illinois Railway Museum
P. O. Box 427
Union, IL 60180


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman sleeper sash
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:39 pm
Posts: 52
I am also a member of Irm coach dept. Irm wood shop has been mfg exterior pullman sash for one of my restoration projects. We use Maghogany just as Pullman did to recreate the exterior windows. If your interested.... the wood shop can mfg you sash for $75ea. Wood materials and shipping are extra. Please contact me privately for more information. Ted Anderson can supply drawings if you decide to mfg windows yourselves. Please keep in mind to mfg this design takes a specialized woodshop with correct tooling.


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman sleeper sash
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:15 am
Posts: 718
Location: Illinois
Interesting replies on this thread. All IRM, all the time!

Yes we do seem to make a LOT of new sash, for many of the cars in our collection, passenger cars and others. Many of the original Pullman sash do seem to be made of mahogany, or some of white oak. Both woods offer good rot resistance, but straightgrained genuine mahogany is increasingly difficult to find and becoming VERY expensive.

I have a commercial wood shop in Iowa that will make new sash for about $200 per copy in quantities five and up. There is a lot of time to set up each cut and operation, so doing any sash for just one copy can be much more expensive.

We generally do not solicit outside work in our IRM wood shop, so would need more info before we could offer the $75 rate mentioned by Roger. That would be something we would debit a car fund for something in our collection. The product we might offer would be for mortise and tenon jointery, assembled with resorcinol glue, finish sanded, and with separate window beading.

No finish painting, glazing, hardware, etc. We would have to consider an offer from the buyer before committing to any firm rate quotation, as well as the backlog of internal work in the shop at any given time. IRM projects take priority. What I am trying to avoid is a lot of folks sending in orders at that very low rate, compared to value in a commercial shop.

Bob Kutella


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