Here are some Edison, glass jar, signal batteries I bought from a signal maintainer about 23 years ago. I think batteries like these, along with other examples of old electrical technology would make a very interesting museum exhibit. I imagine visitors with an electrical or electronics background would enjoy seeing them.

Do we have any museums displaying old, electrical railway technology?

It's been many years since I saw it, but the little museum-display that is (if it's still there) in the station at New Oxford, Pa., had a telegraph key and sounder that were set up to demonstrate Morse, although there was nobody around to actually show how it worked. (It still felt good to sit at that desk, though, and imagine you were Eddie Sand.). This was across the street from the now-gone Paul's Hobby Shop in that town.

Large round jar-type batteries, with blue electrolite in them, show up in at least one station scene in the film "Whispering Smith" (1947, based on a book by Frank Spearman). Such batteries had one of the electrodes shaped like a "crow's foot."

Monticello (Illinois) has a nice display.

Steve

Hell, some British heritage railways still USE their vintage signaling and electrical equipment in operation!

Steve, Your last picture shown of the display at Monticello Illinois i find interesting and thank's for posting those photo's! This is why i like the RPN website as i find it very informative with the many post's and photo's shown that one can learn from.I have a question about that lead 7 finger looking pc. that is clipped on to the side of the glass battery jar.I'm guessing that this is some kind of lead plate?

The reason i'm asking is 10 years ago i found 3-4 of those lead pcs. just like it laying in the attic of a local railroad depot that was going to be demolished.They weren't far from a wooden rack with threaded pegs that had once held early glass insulators wich were broken and strewn about and the telegraph bay window room was underneath below.In the attic there were still many iron ramshorn insulators screwed into the rafters and beams wich i rescued but i don't recall seeing any intact or broken glass battery jars.I picked up those 7 finger looking lead pcs. and still have them and never knew what exactly they were and everyone i had ever asked had no idea as to what exactly they were.

I have seen the round and rectangular glass battery jars with the white porcelain Edison lids before in old abandoned battery wells along the Erie RR in Ohio wich always intrigued me but those had the large flat lead plates inside.Most battery wells they were in were full of water due to the metal access covers missing or thrown off to the side.The few wells that were dry inside wich still had intact batteries on shelves inside wich were no longer hooked up or used had no ladder to get down inside and the ones that had a ladder to get inside the jars were alway's busted.


These other lead type plates the 7 finger looking ones if that's what they are in your last picture? Are these a more earlier type used from the 1870's -80's? The depot i found them in was built in 1880.Why didn't the battery jar in your last photo have some type of lid? Looks like a pretty interesting display that they have at Monticello.

When dealing with ancient batteries, FORGET everything you know about batteries. Lead? Don't count on it. Acid? Not likely.

An old NE-6 caboose had some very old batteries in it. They were 50 years old. They last worked 25 years ago and had been neglected and left to freeze ever since. The battery filler caps were literally a volcano of nasty blue foamy crud. Follow carefully. I used VINEGAR (acid) to clean the battery exterior very carefully, all 10 cells. I stuck a common 10-amp automotive battery charger on it. It took 10 amps, and within 3 minutes rolled down to 4 amps. I unhooked it and loaded the battery with an interior light (2 amps?) After 5 minutes I gave up waiting for the bright light to fade, voltage around 12.5V. I charged it overnight and removed charger. 3 days later the battery delivered at full voltage all day and held 12.5V. I released the battery for unrestricted use.

Confused yet? When dealing with old batteries, forget everything you know about batteries. Seriously.

There's even a pretty good chance your batteries could work if examined by capable hands.

The captions in my photos are too overexposed to read but with a lot of enhancement I was able to come up with this for the crow's foot cell (accuracy not guaranteed):

Crow's Foot Battery

This is an example of a Crow's Foot or "gravity" battery and is a "primary" or exhaustible cell. Batteries of this type were used at locations where commercial power was not available and one or two of these cells would power a track circuit for a year or so. Copper and zinc electrodes were immersed in a mixture of copper sulfate or "blue vitriol" and water. This cell would produce about one volt.

Steve

The good ole Erie Lackawanna had thousands of those PRIMARY batteries and they lasted right to the end. According to a 1929 article that I have from the Railway Signal and Communications Magazine the Erie was able to make them last anywhere from six months to a year while in service. They put out 1 1/2 volts and when they were exhausted you poured out the solution and replaced the element. Then, you poured in a new solution of Caustic Soda (AND) you added a bottle of BATTERY OIL. (No joke, that's what it was called, it was oil that floated on top and helped to cut down on evaporation.
When they were all rebuilt and still hot with that caustic soda inside you lowered them down a ladder into the battery well. Wouldn't OSHA have had a field day over that !!!!!
If you think that locomotive history is interesting, you should give signal history a second look !

Kevin K.

Agree. It is interesting. Especially when I hear stories like the ones you just told. Thanks for posting that.

I did notice an oily substance on these battery lids, and from reading your post, I realized it must be battery oil residue.

Below, a few more close-up views of the components.

In ionic chemistry there is acid and base (alkaline). Both are workable electrolytes, they do conduct electricity and are chemically reactive. Many types of cells use alkaline electrolytes. For instance the Edison secondary battery used potassium hydroxide (KOH) with a small amount of lithium hydroxide (LiOH) to help performance.

The problem is, lithium hydroxide will very aggressively react with atmospheric CO2 to form lithium carbonate (Li2CO3). This hurts battery performance, not least because it deprives the battery of LiOH. The only curative is to change electrolyte. Battery oil is used as a vapor barrier to keep atmospheric CO2 out of contact with the electrolyte.


Oh. And here's your crow's foot battery. http://w1tp.com/mbatt.htm

Started googling "Erie railroad signals" for battery photos. Didn't find much, except did find this depressing image. Laketon, IN.

Ghost of the Erie past by monon738, on Flickr

Robert, Thank you for the link on the Crowsfoot battery.I found it very interesting and i appreciate everyones post's explaining these old batteries.My knowledge of chemistry,batteries and the relay parts that make a RR signal function is not good.

I didn't know that the battery plates/crowsfoot electrodes were made of zinc as i had assumed when finding the old discarded ones and picking them up that they were lead as they looked and felt heavy like lead.Over the years i've found many of those small Edison battery oil bottles along RR row's at locatons where signals and battery boxes once were as the signal maintainers tossed them into the ditches nearby.I alway's thought the little bottles were rather neat having Thomas Edison's signature embossed in the glass.

I found this link on the Edison battery oil bottles:

http://www.antiquebottles.com/edison/

I don't know how accurate it is but all the bottles i ever found were the ones made in Bloomfield N.J. The most common seemed to be those cylindrical ones wich were mainly clear glass but i found a few light aqua colored ones.I did find a older looking one that is slightly taller wich is a flat bottle with rounded sides but it also has the Bloomfield N.J. on it.

Is battery oil even made anymore?

Flo, Your image of the Erie searchlite signals on the signal bridge at Laketon In. reminds me of the old semaphores that still stood in western Ohio that i saw in the late 80's or early 90's.I remember seeing many old rusty ones in a strech west of Lima,Ohio and over not to far from the In. border.All the blades were gone and the lens were all shot out of the spectacles and a few still had the metal milemarker porcelain numberplates.Many still had the motors and relays still in the signal boxes wich held the poles.It was sad seeing the old Erie reduced to barely nothing.The double track was still in place then in a small strech from i think Spencerville over to Ohio City as one main was used for car storage.When i drove out there 5 years ago it was reduced to one track and i don't recall seeing the remaining semaphores.I think R.J.Corman operates on that strech west of Lima now.

F.N.
About two years ago what remained of the Erie RR in Van Wert County, Ohio was scrapped. Everything west of the road crossing at Elgin, Ohio and west of there is gone. The semaphore skeletons (Union Switch & Signal Style S upper quadrant) lasted to the end and thanks to the efforts of some folks at Marion Union Station Association (Marion, Oh) and the cooperation of the Van Wert Port Authority one was saved and can be seen inside the station. In fact, after a few bugs are worked out it will be operational very soon. It took the donation of a lot of parts to make it happen.
Now for another battery story: The Erie RR right of way in western Ohio and also Indiana had a wire fence along side of the track. I was told by some old signal heads that should a problem with bad signal bonds arise that a temporary solution was to bypass the broken bond and hook up to the fence wire !
Also, first installed those Primary batteries only powered the semaphore motor (10 volts DC) and held the arm at CLEAR. The lamp was oil burning (Dressel CO.) and they were used until the mid 1940's ! They had to be filled once every week. When they were replaced with electric lamps (Western RR Supply) they were approach light and were normally dark to save the batteries.
For too long we railfans have worshiped those in engine service but have completely forgotten those who kept the trains rolling ! And that includes the Tower Operators whose
job required the safe passage of trains.

Kevin K.

Edison batteries were commonly used in heavyweight Pullman cars up to the end. I am told that when they would not retain charge very well, car maintainers would remove the electrodes, scrub them thoroughly especially to remove the crystals formed on the iron electrode, put them back in the battery jars, and refill with new potasium hydroxide electrolyte. Then they were good for another 20 years of service.

Edison batteries were ideal for this application because they could be cycled repeatedly with very little damage.

Nickel cadmium batteries sometimes are used today as starting batteries for diesel generators. They will last practically forever if they are kept charged with a pulse type charger. Battery oil is floated on top of the electrolyte to minimize evaporation and contamination of the electrolyte. I never used anything special for this other than than turbine oil because it has no additives that might possibly react with the electrolyte.

Kevin - Well almost all gone, but not quite. A short section of original Erie Railroad still exists west of there in Indiana at North Judson. And the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum there has a number of original Erie signals that they have moved to this genuine Erie right-of-way and are all in working order. Including a US&S Style S upper quadrant single semaphore and a US&S TTO (US&S double semaphore). Also, an Erie single head searchlight signal and a triple head searchlight signal. There are also signals from other railroads, including C&O, EJ&E, PRR, NYC, GTW, B&O, NKP, all of which are on shorter than normal blocks (for display purposes) and are operational from the trains that the museum operates over this trackage.

Les Beckman (HVRM/North Judson, IN)