The Picture:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CORNING-NY-GIBSON-TRAIN-WRECK-1912-LACKAWANNA-RAILROAD-/370526167766?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564514a2d6


The 1000 words:



[url]http://ntl1.specialcollection.net/scripts/ws.dll?file&fn=6&name=S%3A\DOT_56GB\Railroad\WEBSEARCH\NO071.PDF[/url]

I couldn't get your 1000 word link to work, but I did a quick google on the 1912 Corning Wreck. WOW! Amazing story of railroading, both how much and how little it has really changed in 100 years.

We could discuss all of the actions of the crews and trains involved, but that is probably best suited for other rail forums.

Train Wreck History Displays Does anybody have displays and accounts of local train wrecks? I think that there could be some great educational value involved. The evolution of technology and the human factor. Could this lend itself to the use of say an HO display? I don't do Train Simulator, but is it possible to set up computers with different scenarios and visitors take a turn at trying to avoid the wreck? Would this be an idea to partner with local fire/emergency departments to develop a display? I don't think these are costly ideas unless you want to get into staging train wrecks. I could also envision living history actors, that is role players, taking on the role of the engineer or conductor or flagman of #9 stopped on the main line. These ideas might be a little time consuming, but perhaps working with local high schools or scout groups or historical societies this might be a display that could be developed that would both educate and interest viewers.

Tom

1912 just wasn't a great year for the traveling public, was it?

For some reason-the URL converter doesn't like the DOT address:


paste this into your address bar on your browser:

http://ntl1.specialcollection.net/scrip ... _railroads

Yes, 1912 was a rough year, even without considering the sinking of the Titanic.

My grandmother will be 100 this year if she makes it to the end of October. I started looking at these reports because of her description of the Feb 22, 1918 CNJ wreck in Ashley PA which she relayed in crystal clear accuracy until a couple years ago.

She can still tell the story but needs prompting. The most interesting thing is Ashley residents picking up the canned goods that had been spilled by the wreck, with the tacit acquiesence of the CNJ.

I was just getting to ask everyone if they know about this wreck. It seems to be a Erie wreck but I'm not sure. I found these on a less than creditable source. I was hoping someone might recognize them.



Thanks in advance.

Dang, you go away a little while and an avalanche of things turn up here. . .will have to look at the Lackawanna text later, in the middle of a "honey, do" job. . .as to A.F. Boone's photos, the best I can identify is that this incident was early in the Erie-Lackawanna era (post 1960), with the freight Geeps in the wreck utilizing a variation of the Erie paint scheme, while the caboose is a former Lackawanna car. Can't tell from the photos, but there is a chance the NYC box that shows up in a couple of photos is jade green.

Bit of speculation here--the relative lack of damage to the rolling stock suggests this wreck occurred at relatively low speed. Despite the relative positions of locomotives and caboose, this does not look like a rear-ender (I would expect to see much more damage to the caboose if that were the case). Looking at the track damage, and not knowing anything else, it would look to me that the locomotives were in some sort of pusher service, and the track slid out, or they popped a rail out. Now, keep in mind this is just speculation, and there are plenty of odds that I'm full of hooey, but perhaps this can help identify the location and time.

Certainly there will be an ICC report on this.

Thanks J3a-614. I think that one picture is a steam generator too. I thought it would be an easy find but I have searched every combo on Google.

If you follow that link to the official report of the D&LW 1912 wreck, it is a fascinating read. Imagine running a passenger train 60 mph through fog so thick that you can only see a car length at times, and trying to not pass a block signal without perceiving its indication.

Then add a problem with both injectors that had the engineer and fireman leaving their posts and conferring about the problem; and going out on the running boards to try to reshape injector linkage rods while running 60 mph through thick fog while making sure they did not miss any signals.

Imagine a rule that requires the use of torpedoes during weather of low visibility, but forbids the use of torpedoes in weather of normal visibility. Then imagine a flagman opting not to use torpedoes because he perceives the fog to be lifting to the point where the rule forbids using torpedoes.

Accidents like this would make a good "sticky" to refer back to for when someone lambasts today's safety rules and regulations as unnecessary/overboard or suggest that the railroad industry should be left to police itself.

Dave Crosby

Agree with you Mr Crosby. As an aircraft mechanic Warnings, Cautions, and informational notes in the repair manuals are written in "blood".

Steve

That's a tough one. It looks an aweful lot like Devil's Hole (between Mt Pocono and Cresco). There was a derailment at Devil's Hole in the EL days. There's even a box car at Devil's Hole, on an adjacent property and used for storage. Legend has it that it came right from a deralment.

There's not a lot of clarity to the images so this is just conjecture on my part, but the general topography (mountains, curve, track elevation) looks like the stretch between MP 96 and MP 98 at Devil's Hole.

Just my shot in the dark.

Dave

As an addendum

I'd say that this was mid-1960's and EL geeps were quite commonly used as pushers on the former DL&W grade. A Penn Central (instead of NYC) box car would have gone a long way towards pinning down a date.

"Accidents like this would make a good "sticky" to refer back to for when someone lambasts today's safety rules and regulations as unnecessary/overboard or suggest that the railroad industry should be left to police itself."

I’m not sure where anybody is “lambasting” modern safety rules and there was certainly no such suggestion in my post, either express or implied. I’m not sure if there was a policy lesson to be learned from a century ago regarding modern safety rules or the efficacy or advisability of (modern) regulation but here’s what I draw regarding safety and 1912 ICC regulation.

First, when this accident occurred, there was already ample regulation and it didn’t prevent this accident, nor could it as it was the result of human failure -so I don’t know how one could reasonably assert this accident as an endorsement of regulation or an indictment of “self-regulation”.

A little history is in order. The ICC had just celebrated its 25th birthday and state regulation was much older in July 1912. The ICC was at perhaps at the height of its power when this occurred, a spearhead of the statist impulses of the then still popular progressive movement, and where there was still a dearth of criticism of its actions. It would take another 83 years until President Clinton (a Democrat) and the Republican Congress finally drove a stake through its heart, in one of the rarest of events, when a useless (or destructive) part of government is acknowledged as such and dispatched to history.

Here’s a summary of authorizing legislation just prior to this event. The Railroad Safety Appliance Act was enacted in 1893. It was amended in 1903 and 1910. The Hours of Service Act was passed in 1907. The Transportation of Explosives Act passed in 1908 (no, not directly relevant to this accident-but it shows how much regulation existed then) The Accident Reports Act passed in 1910, replacing earlier legislation that passed in 1901. The ICC was directed to investigate automatic block signaling in 1906, but the final report wasn’t completed until June 1912 and this was still being tinkered with in the 1940’s. The Boiler Inspection Act passed in 1911. Yet despite all of these laws, 1912 was something of a bloodbath.

Of course despite these acts federal regulation of railroads was far more concerned with economic regulation, indeed the 1906 Hepburn Act was the culmination Henry Carter Adams’ quest for additional ECONOMIC regulatory power, he sought from the minute he began Chief Statistician.

Now, my patience and time are too short to explore it in detail, but there’s plenty of evidence that federal regulation is often is “self-policing”. ( Read the new 49CFR Part 242 as it appeared in the November 9, 2011 Federal Register, it wasn’t the Little Sisters of the Poor offering comments) and is “cartelizing”, that is-it is enacted and enforced with the acquiescence of the regulated industry in a process known as “regulatory capture”. (all the people who thought Public Company Accounting Board created by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act would bring the “Big 4” to heel must be shocked to find out it seems unwilling to do much but issue redacted reports and hire Big 4 staffers as examiners)

In reviewing the account of this incident, I think the short cause was that the crew committed a collective “epic fail” . There were plenty of rules in force back then that if any or just a couple were observed properly, might have prevented this accident. It wasn’t for a lack of industry regulation or rules that this accident was caused, but for multiple occurrences of inattentiveness to rules.

The lesson I draw from this accident is that safety begins and ends with the individual. All the rules in the world are useless if they aren’t understood and obeyed EVERYTIME.

The best piece of advice I ever got was also in July (1998) "son, do it the right way every time, that way you don't have to worry about the one time you didn't". Since the author of that advice was in uniform when I was in liquid form and still has all his ten fingers and toes and his name on the side of a GP-38, I think it pays to listen.

Mr Crosby, Looking over some internet stuff. I think those pics I posted are from the EL/CNJ wreck of 74 at Lake Junction. Maybe? The ICC report does say it was EL Geeps involved in that.

The link is not direct. Open this link first:

http://dotlibrary.specialcollection.net/

In the list it shows, click on this line:

I.C.C. Historical Railroad Investigation Reports (1911-1994)

When that opens, click on the year 1912.

When that opens a list of wrecks in 1912, you will see three wrecks listed for Delaware, Lackawanna & Western. Click on the second one, and that opens the DL&W wreck at Corning, NY on 7/4/1912.


It is interesting to note in one of the other references, it says that the engineer, upon seeing the stopped train closely ahead, reversed the locomotive at 65 mph, and it derailed from the reverse action. So the locomotive was running on the ties when it hit the passenger train ahead of it. It also said that the shock of the reversal threw the engineer out the window of the cab, and he landed on the ground.

Then he got up and walked 14 miles home.