Hmm, One of the other issues with shelters is lighting. This is actually an area where our eyes are better than cameras, but they still struggle with glare. The shelters are supposed to shade the equipment from some of the damage caused by sunlight, but the black color of a steam locomotive exacerbates the problem of seeing a shaded object displayed in a setting that is otherwise lit by full-sun.

I have thought about this issue off and on for some time. Especially since our indoor displays are almost always terribly lit.

The photo of the DM&IR engine does not look too bad and I think the broad overhangs painted white help but I think what really makes the locomotive look half decent is the fact that the picture was taken on an overcast day. Cloud cover diffuses the light enough that the engine is more evenly illuminated and is not seen against anything that is fully sun-lit. That said, the dark undersides of most of these shelters makes it harder to discern the top of the equipment. The white paint bounces diffuse light down on the engine and creates contrast with the locomotive. Also, because the underside is never lit by the sun, it is never too bright against the engine.

A translucent fabric shelter would allow more light to reach the equipment, but not enough to completely fix the glare problem. I was wondering if controlling the backdrop might also help. A wall or tall fence behind a locomotive would help it "pop" from its surroundings. White would be too bright, and black would blend in, so perhaps a middle shade of grey, or even a color?

Even though it think it is almost okay, I wish the DM&IR engine's shelter had the columns placed further from the locomotive. It is as if the engine is in a cage. I am also beginning to think the structure should never be painted black. Let's go ahead and make it clear that it is not the same as the equipment. It is not going to "disappear" just because you made it the same color.

As for fences, if you MUST have them, then no higher than 3-feet. It is tall enough to tell people they are not allowed in, and if the delinquents are determined to get in anyway, a 6-foot fence is not going to stop them. There are a number of unfenced engines out there that have not been destroyed by vandals. It is usually when something starts to look decayed and neglected that the vandals step in to help out.

Just some thoughts

Randy
(Architect)

Thank you to everyone who has posted for the thoughtful replies to my request. I think this has been very useful discussion and I'm glad others seem to be finding it useful also. Any additional ideas or comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul Krueger
Secretary
Cascade Rail Foundation
"Remembering the Milwaukee Road in Washington"
http://www.milwelectric.org

Paul,

Nice work on a great thread. My hope would be that at some point there might be a concise "recommended practices" for locomotive shelters including some of the points discussed here and one or more sketches or specs. I do like Randy's comments about visual impact of the underside of the shelter. I never thought about painting the ceiling white/light color.

Wesley

At the B&O Museum, during the reconstruction from the 2003 roof collapse two raised platforms were built with roofs that completely cover the track on either side. The raised platform in the middle allows visitors to get up to where they can see inside displayed equipment and get into it with no steps. Kind of a win-win. The supports under the roofs were built to mimic the roundhouse roof supports.



http://photos.greatrails.net/showpic/?photo=2010111004492732681.jpg&order=byrail&page=13&key=B%26O%20Railroad%20Museum

http://photos.greatrails.net/showpic/?photo=2008121609123425366.jpg&order=byrail&page=30&key=B%26O%20Railroad%20Museum

http://photos.greatrails.net/showpic/?photo=20081213160118625.jpg&order=byrail&page=30&key=B%26O%20Railroad%20Museum

http://photos.greatrails.net/showpic/?photo=201011090514264688.jpg&order=byrail&page=13&key=B%26O%20Railroad%20Museum

several years ago i spotted a shay undercover in Forks Wa, anybody have any details?

This one is a good example of a nice-looking shelter, and I *think* there might even be an engine under there, although it's hard to tell from the photo...

Most museum's prized paintings aren't 100 feet long...

While you bring up a good point, the two are seperate issue. Take a chain link fence for example. You can easily walk along and observe the entire engine. Is there a pesky bit of wire in the way of some detail? Simply move you head a bit, or take a step right or left.

However, when you try and take a photo, that same fence often obscures enough of the photo that it's not an attractive image.

When visiting these kind of displays, you'll often hear folks say "I can't get a good photo!" but I've yet to hear anyone say "I can't see the locomotive!"

OK, here is my submission. It's basically an exact copy of the DM&IR 229 shelter,
but with a few modifications:

1) Increased clearance above the locomotive. This greater air space above the loco
will let in more light, which will make good photographs possible. If you look at the
Antigo, WI shelter again (page 1 of this thread), the high roof allows for plenty of
light to fall on the exhibit, so the loco photographs very well.

2) Increased side clearance between support columns and the loco. This will
help eliminate some of the "caged" look of the DM&IR 229.

One further comment about these clearances (lateral & above) is that they are
approximately the same as actual railroad tunnel and bridge clearances, so they
look and feel more or less "right".

Please feel free to critique. Thanks.

(DM&IR 229 photo courtesy Wikipedia commons.)

FYI, DM&IR 229 looks much better now than it did in the previous photos, thanks to Missabe Road historian Todd Lindahl and the Lake County Historical Society. I have not yet seen it myself; this photo on Flickr is by Dave Schauer:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/18171644@N ... /lightbox/

FYI:

Flat roof + heavy snow = collapsed roof/shed.

Something that may have to be factored in.

The DM&IR 229 shelter is almost bird-proof. Some sheet-metal barriers to close the gaps between the crosswise I-beams and the steel roofing would eliminate all possible bird roosts above the locomotive.

Jeff Terry mentioned the lighting which I noticed in the daytime photo. Night lighting is perhaps the greatest improvement you can make with a locomotive display such as this. In this case, with the spots from the ground level, I am not sure the ceiling lights are that needed. In fact, they detract with added glare - perhaps not as much as your million-candlepower per square foot super convenient gas station - but any glare reduces the quality of night experience.

I agree flat roofs can collapse from a snow load. With the prairie wind in that location, perhaps all the snow would blow off anyway. My main concern with a flat roof in a climate where you have freeze-thaw is the old Frank Lloyd Wright problem: Cool looking building, but the roof leaks. Affordable to build, but factor in the maintenance.

High winds are a concern. That flat-roofed building would not have much of a wind load, but in any building it needs to be factored. I am leery about those modern sail structures, when placed in areas of high wind, microbursts, and tornados. They say they survive... but I have watched several such structures try to destroy themselves. I guess they did survive, but I was not comfortable watching it!

Here are the buildings I was thinking of when outdoor covered displays were asked about:

Columbus and Greenville 178
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=830f7d98-5098-445a-a052-2017ee4641ba


Mammoth Cave #4 and combine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hercules_and_Coach_-2_NPS.JPG


Grand Rapids Grand Haven & Muskegon #8 from Dave's Railpics (a smaller budget shelter)
http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/mi/htm/cm03.htm

I think the shelter in Billings, Montana is the nicest one that I have seen.

I grew up on the Gulf Coast of Texas and every time a good storm blew through, you'd see every carport in town blown away!

The NP 1031 photos demonstrate that even nicely designed, attractive and wide(er) display sheds can't fully protect from the elements...there's blowing snow up on top of the boiler and tender...and the resulting trickle of melt water seeping into every available opening.

In a perfect world we'd all be able to afford fully enclosed, climate-controlled display buildings with plenty of good light and lots of space to be able to get those great photos...

Oh well...