What are the pros and cons of restoring an artifact to highly accurate original condition vs. making modifications (roller bearings & HEP) that allow operation albeit only giving a similarity to the original?

I spent the week in the OVERLAND TRAIL a former bar/barber shop lounge from the SP/UP Overland. It's drapes and carpet were not the exact same as old photos showed, but the new fabrics retained the "50's feel" of the original version. It is in use similar to its original service, but not exact. Does that matter?

By the way, its owner offers public charters twice a month round trip between LA and San Diego. It's quite an experience.

Overland Trail
wyld@sbcglobal.net

This is an old, old debate in our community, and a subject on which no consensus seems to exist.

My broad response is that we need two kinds of preservation.

We need one group of artifacts cared for under rigorous long-term conservation guidelines. These artifacts are for learning; we want to study their original materials, construction, configuration, etc. Updating, modifying or operating them would diminish their value for this purpose, so the goal should be conservation and preservation of the original form and fabric.

We also need a second group of artifacts which teach what railroads did and do, how they looked felt and sounded--in other words, operating artifacts. These should be updated as need be with sensistivity, consumed as need be with moderate and responsible use. This class of artifacts includes operating steam engines, as well as passenger cars like the Washington DC NRHS's Dover Harbor.

Which artifact belongs in which camp? Aye, there's the rub. The most sensible approach I've ever heard is to let the mission of the organization rule the use of the artifact. In general, museums should be in the conservation business and their artifacts should not be consumed though regular use or modernization. In general, tourist railroads or the operating items in a museum collection (a special class of non-accessioned or "use collection" artifacts) should be operated for interpretive purposes.

That said, we will always have people who violently disagree on the fate of any individual artifact. There are those who want to haul PRR 4-4-0 1223 and 4-4-2 7002 back out of the RRM of Pa and get them on the road again. There are others who see a one-of-a-kind piece being modified, modernized and consumed, and want to get it back into a cocoon as fast as possible.

In my personal opinion, where possible real one-of-a-kind artifacts should be in preservation collections, and relatively common artifacts in use collections. I have no problem in principle with restoring nearly any super-power steam engine from a conservation point of view, becuase the basic technology is relatively common (I may think it very unwise from a financial point of view but that is a different debate). Same with nearly any mass-production EMD diesel.

On the other hand, there are some things running that, much as I enjoy seeing them go, I think are better off as conservation pieces--1223 and 7002 both being good examples, along with any of the three surviving Camelbacks, or Alco-GE-Ingersoll boxcabs, or most things with Winton prime movers.

Best of all is to have one example of the same thing in conservation and one in operation: for example, the Baldwin n.g. 4-4-0 Jupiter in conservation in the Smithsonian, and her sister Eureka operating under the capable and loving care of Dan Markoff.


Dallas Morning News
eledbetter@rypn.org

Well said indeed! The key element it seems to me is that an owner and certinly any museum worth the name should document the work that they do on an artifact.

In the Park Service we have the Consumptive Use Report to help in this process.

I wish that there was more cosmetic restoration out there. Not everything can or should be made to run again. The October Railfan and Railroad has a good Lineside Lagacy by David Conrad about the conservation of an 1857 4-4-0. But I know its costly to do it that way!

There are a lot of light weight railroad cars around and about that can be given roller bearings or new trucks so they can run again. How many visitors come to the museums who have ever spent the night on a train? Most of them have not even ridden a short commuter railroad. When I work at the Western Railway Museum I expect to hear that the visitors have not been in a street car or Interurban...But many say this is the first time on any sort of train!How did they miss the Long Island RR or the Chicago MARTA with millions of passengers a year!

For the Western railfamns the Pacific Locomotive Association is restoring a Southern Pacific dining car. Well woth a look when you go to Niles. New wood paneling, new lighting, and soon new furniture. Quite a project!

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

> For the Western railfamns the Pacific
> Locomotive Association is restoring a
> Southern Pacific dining car. Well woth a
> look when you go to Niles. New wood
> paneling, new lighting, and soon new
> furniture. Quite a project!

I saw this project several years ago. It is quite a project. But, when I was there, I spotted that the window sash were not being constructed in the traditional manner. I missed part of a discussion by the people involved; I was told that they said, yah, we know we're not doing it the old way, but this is how we choose to do the project. Well, they were up front about it.

Brian Norden


bnorden49@earthlink.net

Well, as a OERM member and private railcar operator, I too know both sides of the issue.

With the Overland Trail (almost bought that car once) as with our own private cars, the moderization to Amtrak standards for operation is just the next step in that car's career. At this point, many cars have been in private operators' ownership longer than either the original railroad or Amtrak. When the time comes to retire from PV operations, our cars will be looking for a museum home in the operating condition they possess at that time. Does the museum want to convert back from APEE's to SP's oil Hyatts? Repaint the Imron with red lead primer and Dulux enamels? It's their choice.

From my view in the museum shops, regardless of era to be depicted, the wiring will be Nomex or Kapton instead of cambric; journal lubricators will be pads instead of rolled waste; in short, knowing how it was done does not drive continuing to expend scarce time and labor for tradition's sake. Appearance is another, larger discussion topic.

By the way, our answer to anyone suggesting our choice of PV color scheme is incorrect or inappropriate: paint costs $$ per gallon, would you like to sponsor our paint scheme? No fan has ever opened his wallet.

Francis Wong


flwong@danceart.net

The October
> Railfan and Railroad has a good Lineside
> Lagacy by David Conrad about the
> conservation of an 1857 4-4-0. But I know
> its costly to do it that way!

About that article. I'm glad at least one person liked it. I was suprised to find a few negative emails in my inbox about what I wrote. "If it's not going to run I don't want to know about it" was what one person said. Another wrote "Why would you tell us about this...its just another old engine rotting away in a musuem." Yet another asked how I can be interested in static display locomotives and cosmetic restoration jobs when there are so many operating engines out there. (He suggested I write something about the engines at the Durango & Silverton).

Gee...EP&SW No.1 is one the most interesting projects to surface in recent years, but because it won't run some just don't care about it. Perhaps this subject was a bit too deep for the regular R&R reader...

Jeff Terry



jterry618@msn.com

> By the way, our answer to anyone suggesting
> our choice of PV color scheme is incorrect
> or inappropriate: paint costs $$ per gallon,
> would you like to sponsor our paint scheme?
> No fan has ever opened his wallet.

While I would never suggest to an owner what to do with his car, I have opened my wallet and given my time freely to help an owner. I appreciate your comments, Francis. I missed you on the NRHS Special.

Corey


wyld@sbcglobal.net

Also taking into account the EPA ... no more white or red lead ... The time taken to make a welded fabrication look like a casting ...substitution of elctrical components or trucks ... good old asbestos replacement ... soldered connections and friction tape ... the whole range of organic insulations ...speaking of paint, does anybody varnish "varnish" anymore? ... are paris-green passenger car ceilings painted with arsenic based paint? How about correcting original design errors that caused leaks or structural problems? ...I guess folks starting with a complete vehicle can do a "restoration" while those with a chicken coop are stuck with a "reconstruction". The true historian can sit in a corner and carp but the riders whizzing down the line (as Frank mentioned above) will be able to relive the experience just as well.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

> The October R&R article was a good one. I am glad to be able to tell you that in person!

I work with museum ships week in and week out; the best that we can hope for is to keep them floating and available. You can't take a 300' long vessel, to sea at age 112. But you can show it, talk about it, show historic photos etc.

No you should not take 1857 steam engines with lap seam boilers out on the line!

Ted Miles



ted_miles@nps.gov

R&R is an interesting magazine. They have a lot of interesting articles like the EP&SW one that I guess are "out there" for the chaser crowd. I happen to think that Jim Porterfield's "On the Menu" is a great regular column. Maybe R&R will educate their readership, even if they go kicking and screaming!

Erie Lackawanna Dining Car Preservation Society
tstuy@eldcps.org

> I work with museum ships week in and week
> out; the best that we can hope for is to
> keep them floating and available. You can't
> take a 300' long vessel, to sea at age 112.
> But you can show it, talk about it, show
> historic photos etc.

> No you should not take 1857 steam engines
> with lap seam boilers out on the line!

> Ted Miles

During the hype for the Texas 150th birthday bash there was talk of restoring the locomotive to operation. The concensus was that the locomotive would have to pass a hydo of twice the operating pressure to run that day. There was talk of six days under steam at various sites and a special car for the locomotive to travel the state with it ending up in Dallas at the State Fair. We were looking at a 50 psi operating pressure. The firebox nixed any of those ideas though as it has a nice crack (I believe about six inches). The locomotive was put on Display in 1909 "in operating condition" by the EP&SW. The use in the 1938movie "Let Freedom Ring" may have caused the damage. Mechanicaly the locomotive is in good shape. Before she is stuffed in the parking garage some good photos can be taken. I'd like to see her pose and put on display with the other EP&SW locomotive in El Paso.


EPSW271@aol.com

I very much enjoyed the article. It was one of the best print articles I've read since the loss of our beloved RYPN rag. I hope we see more of this style article in the future. The #1 is truely one of the very rare original "survivors".

Smokebox



"orhf dot org"

> Smokebox

You are off to a great start on the the new site.
Hopefully that will get some attention and some
$$$$$$$$$$HELP$$$$$$$$$$$$


lamontdc@adelphia.net

the > moderization to Amtrak standards for
> operation is just the next step in that
> car's career.

Excellent point. When undertaking a restoration project, it needs to be agreed on just what point the work is to represent.

If a locomotive saw many years in service, and perhaps upgraded the brake system, while in revenue work, just what is preserved? The original builder's design or the latter modifications?

At Railtown 1897, there still sits an unfinished caboose restoration (dormant for at least five years), whose problems stems from the disagreement over just what phase or era the restoration should represent. Apparently the caboose saw three unique configurations, and no one could agree which phase to use. Sadly, the issue caused a great amount of hard feelings, and Railtown lost several top quality volunteers over this.

fwsturke@pacbell.net