wm303,

Outstanding explaination! Now I get it!

Rick

Thanks for the tip on the Interior Department's guidelines. The standards for "Rehabilitation" look like what we are thinking about for the Keokuk Union Depot.

I second this recommendation.

For an historic building project, railroad or not, these terms are quite clearly defined in the the Secretary of the Interior's Standards, and those are the definitions that everyone in the historic building field uses and understands.

For a building, absolutely use the Interior standards, not the ARM Recommended Practices, which are targeted more at rolling stock.

Then there is that word: conserve. "To keep from harm or damage." As in the case of the Keokuk station or to encase a carbody in tarps or plywood.

This attraction has been recognized, in many quarters, as an excellent example of conservation and preservation.

http://www.tenement.org/

The term "replica" is often misused by folks who are building an all-new freight car or locomotive. The definition of this word goes way back to the days before copies could easily be made. A "replica" is in fact an exact copy made my the original artist.

In the case of the WW&F Ry, since the railroad technically never went out of business, one could say that everything built or rebuilt in the Sheepscot shops is either an original, or a replica :)

Stephen

I have visited here and it is worth the trip if you are in New York. They do a great job of preserving/conserving a vintage structure in place, showing things in their present state, and letting your imagination do the rest. The closest example I can think of in railway preservation is Johnstown Traction 350 at Pennsylvania Trolley Museum, which I recall is displayed in about the same shape as when it it ended service in Johnstown.

Wesley

This discussion brings to mind two examples from the world of local passenger transport: San Francisco cable cars and Pacific Electric "Blimps".

Since cable cars are in daily service, they get old and creaky over time, but they still operate just as they did in the 19th Century. I saw one case where the Muni workers had the roof of one car suspended overhead, while a new body was constructed underneath. In other cases, they "jack up the gong and build a whole new car underneath." I've seen trucks that were made of new steel bar stock and either newly cast or recycled castings. Someone could spend a lot of time and energy researching how much "original fabric" was left in each of the cars running today.

The PE "Blimps" are the large steel interurban cars that PE acquired second-hand from SP suburban operation subsidiaries in the San Francisco Bay Area during World War II. Orange Empire has three, and all are as they were after the big refurbishing project that PE did in 1946-48. This included new seats and modern "bullseye" lighting, similar to that found in PCC cars. PE also added solid doors, replacing the sliding gates which were used "up north" (and which I remember from childhood along the PE Monrovia Line). The one "backdating" OERM has done is removing the LAMTA car numbers (which were only in effect for about three years) and going back to PE numbers and the PE name on the letterboard. As far as I know, there is no interest in backdating the cars any further. I bring up this matter because one "Blimp" has returned to a site near its "homeland"--ex-PE 457/MTA 1707 is at the Western Railway Museum near Fairfield, CA. I believe long range plans call for it to be restored as SP 332, going back to its condition as a car on the Interurban Electric Ry., presumably with 3-2 seating, bare light bulbs above the seats, sliding gates on the doorways, and a pantograph for current collection. (anyone from BAERA with more accurate information is welcome to chime in)

.

I would consider the work on 223 a restoration for several reasons... you are replacing the deteriorated parts in kind. I applaud you choosing to rivet rather than weld up the new tender cistern. I noted that you were choosing to replace the smoke box piping with cast rather than wielded replacements. This is the difference with rebuilding an artifact vs rebuilding a locomotive for tourist service.

A second thought, much of the work you are doing would be considered maintenance "in the day." Think of re-roofing or repainting a historic building... this is not restoration, it is maintenance, the roof and paint being examples of wearing parts.

One other thought... document the work you are doing... particularly why you chose to follow the path you are... for example why you riveted the tank, how you riveted the tank... this documentation should become part of the artifact's record.

Randy

The current plan is to interpret ex-IER 332 as PE 457. It tells the story of what happened to some of the Interurban Electric cars when passenger service was discontinued.

We have several other IER car bodies which we plan to restore as IER cars. One is supposed to become an IER coach with the 3-2 seating which Bob mentions. We also have two combine bodies, one is planned to be restored with the original rectangular front windows, and the other with the round end windows which were later modifications.

Unfortunately, the IER projects are probably far in the future. When they were retired, the scrappers cleaned off everything below the sills, including the body bolsters which were large specialized castings.

I remember that when the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania reported on the rebuilding of their wood Russell snowplow, 90% of the wood was so rotten it could not be reused. They made a point of referring to the rebuilt plow as a reproduction.

-Mark