The problem is, Dave, when you find yourself needing to abuse idiots, nobody knows what or whom you are referring to because you address your insults to posters in the whole thread in general. Why don’t you just take your own advice and explain rationally why you disagree with a point made in the discussion? We would be happy to listen.

As one of the people involved with this early on, let me state the ritual disclaimer that there is no connection between the website RyPN and the former Locomotive and Railway Preservation Magazine. The magazine is the property of Pentrex, and they have no involvement with this website.



To make a long story exceedingly short, the founders of this site tried to ensure its future by incoporating and securing 501(c)3 status. The readers were quite generous in making resources available. However, one reader threatened to sue the Board of Directors. While the suit would have been without merit, the Board did not have D&O insurance and was not in a position to defend themselves from their own resources. The Board resigned en masse, and no one was successful in organizing a replacement Board to pursue the affairs of the company. The company became defunct.

Essentially, you are reading something of a ghost forum, kept alive by the efforts of a few individuals, who are largely content to fly under the radar. Having collected the arrows in my own back when I was actually part of the administration of RyPN when it was a legal corporation, I can't say I blame them.

The person in question who threatened to sue is still present on this forum.

And many newcomers are quick to fawn over his past accomplishments, blissfully unaware that he basically tried to "bully" this website out of existence. And they wonder why the "older guard" here don't share in their adulation and fanboy worship.

If there ever comes a time the current operators are tired of running this forum, I would be willing to discuss taking it over. I have server space and software available (Vbulletin) that could bring it up to current standards.

It may (no guarantee, but just maybe) be possible to import the old messages.

The cost for doing so would be fairly minimal, since I suspect this forum sees little traffic compared to some of my other websites like railroadforums.com so the extra bandwidth consumed wouldn't be a big deal.

As for threats of members wanting to sue me, been there and done that, numerous times. My reply has always been "I've closed your account and given you a full refund on your (non-existent) membership fee. Have your lawyer read the terms of service you agreed to when you signed up, and if he thinks your case has merit he can contact me." I've never heard from a lawyer. Disgruntled members? Sure, including one with multiple aliases and possibly multiple personalities. But never an actual attorney.

What kind of dollars would it take to obtain D&O insurance for an endeavor like RYPN? I think having a new 501(c)3 to care for this site would generate enough donations to cover that plus be able to spend some money on site enhancements.

I did not know that the board of directors resigned en masse. No wonder the forum seems to be on auto pilot. Years ago one of the founders asked if I would volunteer my services to prepare the tax exemption application for RYPN. I was too busy to do it, and now I am glad that I didn't waste my time. I do hope that the RYPN corporate entity wasn't allowed to cease to exist during the latest IRS purge. If so that would have been extremely short sighted and stupid.

BTW, a D&O policy costs a minimum $800 per year for $1 million in coverage.

Just post different boards to divide up the content so people can find what is relevant.

Content I see here is.
Questions and request for feed back on a project. ie. "what flooring should I use for x car from y era" "Does any one know where I gan get this part"

Information about RR Preservation Projects What you and your organization are doing. ie. "#546 gets new piston rods" or "What's happening at RMNE"

Problems and stuff How do I remedy this. ie. "How do we get younger people involved" "New FRA regulations threaten small museums" "Dat der Commie Obamer wants to take 'way our steam locomotives"

Other ie. "21st century steam locomotives"

I don't know that it would have been a waste of your time. The company did function fine for 3 years under the founding Board.

I am sure it has ceased to exist, but stupid? I mean, can an empty box be considered stupid? That's all the corporate shell was--an empty box--after its Board self-dissolved.

And yes, I would say the $800 figure for D&O is right on.

This has been an interesting discussion. Having been an active member for well over 13 years, I can honestly say that I have seen this page go from something of a rarity to something more of a railfan based, fire dart throwing contest. All of which has caused me moments of pause.

We have seen some of the greatest names in our industry come and go on this page. They come to be part of the discussion; they have left as the fire dart contest of "I know more than you know" is simply too much to take. The original post asked why it is that industry professionals have distanced themselves from the page in the past few years. The answer to that is simple;

Those of us who joined the board long ago, using our real names, signing our posts under our real names have a hard time hacking the debate made in a faceless society. I enjoy the industry more for the social aspect than anything else. However, I have to be 100% honest is saying that I hate, rather I despise, wait, maybe I want to vomit every time I enter a meaningful discussion just to be thrown a fiery dart by some nameless, faceless, non industry working "expert" who has spent the bulk of his/her railroad career taking pictures.

When debates were held even as few as five years ago, the person holding the floor always showed respect to the person with whom he/she was debating. Words like, Mr or Mrs, or Thank you, or "May I please offer the following idea," were common place. Any more, this forum is a spring board to see who can make an industry professional look like an idiot the fastest! I don't really care if people agree with me or not. However, I strive to respect the views of others (right or wrong) and when I feel that strongly about an issue that may become personal, I take my case back door. Some of you have had some great back door discussions with me. Others of us have had really mean back door discussions, but we (I) have kept the name calling directly related to the people I (we) want to call out, I have not made them public issues. (The whole lawsuit issue could have been solved by this simple principle of keeping the name calling back door.)

What I am getting at is this; Are we really having "DISCUSSIONS" here, or are we having mindless debates for the sake of some "power play"? The bigger problem is; Those who may be or are the leaders of these types of mindless debates are the same ones who use false names, won't unveil who they are, what they have done or any experience they have, yet will go after those of who are willing to be open, honest and forthright about who we are in the industry.

Wasatch Railroad has made two requests over the years to support RyPN from a financial standpoint. In fact, my offer still stands, I would love to buy the page. However, I would do things differently and would organize it differently. One may ask, why would I want to buy it? Well, suffice to say, if you looked real hard at who is looking at the page; There is a very large base of potential customers/industry experts that, if given the right atmosphere, could actually improve the base of the discussion and the value of each posting. However, for the same reason I mentioned above, they stay somewhat at bay.

My only request: The discussions are fine, the questions are fine, I would spend more time here if;

We all showed each other a little more respect, we held our tongues (fingers) when we do not see eye to eye, we debate in a meaningful manner and we refrain from mean and intentional show-boating and power playing for no sensible reason. Really guys, why else would you want to make others look stupid, other than to make yourself look better? I think that skill was learned in 3rd grade and best left there!

You want RyPN to be what it really has the potential to be? Then be your best self when you show up and be the best gentleman you can be and be proud of who you and post yourself as you are.

Very kindly yours, always,

There were warnings, both public and private that what has happened, would. Heavy handed moderation removes any contentious discussion (contentious, aka worth discussing) So you get the vacuous and banal.

Moderators should ONLY become involved after there is a request, (there's a reason the police, judge and jury are separate) and its seconded by two others. Then you don't have to worry about the umpire deciding the strike zone, just calling em.

As for the real name blither, its been beaten to death. There are very good reasons NOT to use your real name EVER on the internet, even if you aren't presently employed in a sensitive position. "Googling" prospective employees has been going on for 5-10 years. The idea that you should impeil yourself to satisfy the prurient curiosities of strangers is bizarre. Using a consistent name is hell of a lot better than creating a "real sounding" name-which is what will happen.

Unfortunately, I don't know how you "reboot" something.

I've started at least three times to enter this thread, and now John has come along and basically said everything I feel.
I tire of the endless discussions, arguments and "I know a damned sight better"attitude of some posters over some subjects.
I really enjoy the actual restoration threads, updates from Strasburg and Wasatch and things like that. There is much I can learn from them, even though I'm not active in the industry any more.
I've been guilty of dropping snarky comments and attempting to inject some humor to try and defuse the ego pumping.
There are other sites for oneupsmanship and foaming. There are other sites for Leonarding.
I would not want to be a moderator and have to decide when to shut down a thread when it eventually spins out of control.
I would like to see less foaming, arguing and bloviating on this site. I would like to see more illustrated updates from active restorations. I too would like to see more courtesy here.
I'll do it if the rest of you do.

Here's a question?

How many of you would be willing to pay an annual fee (around $50 or so) for access to a discussion form on this topic? How many of your friends & associates who aren't here at the moment?

The fee would provide the necessary compensation to make the technology, administration, and overhead work consistently. The terms of service would be very clear as would the consequences for violating them.

Think Trainorders, but with a narrower focus.

Thomas Cornillie

I totaly agree with every thing John Rimmasch says. Although I will admit when I dont know somthing, it is dificault at times when you are trying to convay some positive new information that the armchair critics and historians come out with foaming coments. I have also found times when it was better not to offer more information because it would be shot down.

Beyond anything RyPN has given me at least on a few ocations the opitunity to educate about what is realy posible with improving steam locos and that I am greatful for. Although we use the word Presavation it has to be remembered that we work with in the tourist and entertainment industry. Like everything you have to move on and keep up with the times. Please to every one I ask, keep things positive and open so we can keep steam a living item which I feel has been very lacking in recent weeks.

I hope that RyPN remains a forum where technical information and debaite continues in a positive way.

As the guilty party who caused the then BOD to exit enmass when I threatened to bring legal action against them please allow me to state that it revolved around what I saw then as one moderators obvious blatent bias and his refusal to allow me to defend myself politiely but firmly when attacked by one of the handful of Ross Rowland hater/wanna be's ( negatoids I like to call them) that then populated ( and unfortunatly still do) the forum.

I'm 100% with John Rimmasch's comments and have long felt strongly that real names should be mandatory and when that policy is implemented it will greatly improve the overall quality of the forum. The nonsense that your afraid to use your real identity for all those specious reasons is just that....nonsense.

If you're not willing to put your name on a posting then don't post.

Despite the annoyances of the small number of Toids, RyPN is still a valuable tool and well worth working on to improve.

IMHO-Ross Rowland