I read on this site the praise for mid continent. Have any of you actually been there and seen all the railcars that are just rotting away while they make a few look really pretty and then hype them up? And all their steam engines are rusting away to junk while they pull their pretty cars with an old alco switch engine. That museeum is in really sad shape despite all theyre hype.

NW

cnwguy@juno.com

> I read on this site the praise for mid
> continent. Have any of you actually been
> there and seen all the railcars that are
> just rotting away while they make a few look
> really pretty and then hype them up? And all
> their steam engines are rusting away to junk
> while they pull their pretty cars with an
> old alco switch engine. That museeum is in
> really sad shape despite all theyre hype.
If you stand back and look at the situation at Mid-Continent you will readily see just how much hard work and money it takes to restore the cars that they have done to date. To say that they are superb restorations in an understatement. Thier standards are high and it shows. Yes, there are a lot of cars and engines that should be worked on and no doubt your extra pair of willing hands would be welcome at any work party. Also your money would be welcome as it would help them out and give you some tax relief. As a long time member of a gruop here in B.C., I can tell you that one feels physically in pain when one sees a car in need of work. That is why we keep going after all these old cars and performing fine restoration work. I don't think there is a single person at Mid-Continent that wouldn't gladly spend all day every day working on restoration and so it is with everyone else who values our railway heritage. Next time try to offer some encouragement rather than a negative shot. We can get all of the negativism we want so why not counter that with a small donation to MCRM
> NW


http://www.wcra.org
gferguson@aebc.com

CNWguy, your post amounts to flaming, which is not welcome here.

Please review the Interchange Rules & Guidelines available from the link at the top of the Interchange home page and follow them if you wish to post here.



ASME National Engineering Landmarks Roster
eledbetter@rypn.org

As time, money, and volunteer availability allow, Mid-Continent IS restoring ALL of it's collection. It just takes a while. Meanwhile, all of the collection is kept in at least a stabilized condition, the prevent further deterioration. Work IS progressing on the steam engines for future operation.

Allan

ddg14@attbi.com

This is a hot topic for me. I do believe that we have lost far too many artifacts to preservationists who obtain these things and then let them go to pot. There are a very few (thank goodness) who do this almost intentionally with the attitude - "if I can't have it nobody else can either". The majority of us acquire this stuff with all the good intentions in the world but we get smacked with the reality of the overwhelming task of preservation.

This has happened to us at Strasburg and it is not something we are proud of. We did, however take steps to remedy the situation. We culled the collection and cocooned the remainder of the unrestored cars. Unfortunately we still have a few "hulks" but they have been stripped to what is salvagable in order to retard deterioration of those parts. It is not a perfect solution but it is an improvement.

Cocooning is realitively inexpensive and, if done correctly is very effective. We would be happy to share our experience in this area with anyone.


linnwm@supernet.com

Also, to add to my previous post, many of the unrestored cars at Mid-Continent are privately owned by members. As time permits, their owners ARE restoring them. It may not be obvious from the outside, but a lot of work has been done on the interiors of these cars. For the time being, while the interiors are being restored, the exteriors have just been stabilized until the exterior work can be done.

Allan

ddg14@attbi.com

This is another anonymous attack. I am left to assume it is by a disgruntled member or someone with an axe to grind at MidC. Without any other info, it is hard to give the original post any creedence.

I suggest we don't waste RYPN bandwidth by providing legitimate responses to anonymous flames. The good advice and honest answers provided are probably lost on anonymous message board flamers.

Rob

> I read on this site the praise for mid
> continent. Have any of you actually been
> there and seen all the railcars that are
> just rotting away while they make a few look
> really pretty and then hype them up? And all
> their steam engines are rusting away to junk
> while they pull their pretty cars with an
> old alco switch engine. That museeum is in
> really sad shape despite all theyre hype.

> NW


trains@robertjohndavis.com

To try and take this in a postive direction what are people's opinion of what a museum should do when offered a piece of equipment knowing it is in poor condition needs work and will just be a piece of junk for several years before it moves to the top of the restoration list
Tom


tcox@parknet.pmh.org

Lets ignore the anonymous source, and flame for a minute and examine the heart of the post.

IMPRESSION- How many rail museums actually DO give an impression of a junk yard? Sounds like a missed opportunity to me.

Make up signs for each artifact, not only with the historical info, but the museum's plans for it, and the current progress, and then add a small "donations gladly accepted" box below.(don't forget to empty it regularly!) You might not collect all that much, but its money you probably wouldn't have gotten at all otherwise.

Engine's Moan

The fact that the folks at Strasburg have made an effort to prevent rot on the equipment that is waiting it's turn in the shop shows that they are interested in doing the right thing even though they are under pressure to make a profit. Many other organizations have not made such an effort. Strasburg should be commended for these steps.



Forgotten Delaware
tom@forgottendelaware.com

> To try and take this in a postive direction
> what are people's opinion of what a museum
> should do when offered a piece of equipment
> knowing it is in poor condition needs work
> and will just be a piece of junk for several
> years before it moves to the top of the
> restoration list
> Tom

That's a good question; it largely depends on what the alternatives are. Most often, if the equipment will otherwise be scrapped, it's much better off being preserved, even if restoration is a long way off. If it falls into the hands of a restaurant or private collector, who knows what they might do to it? Cars have doors cut in the sides, historic fabric is discarded without any documentation, and eventual restoration becomes nearly impossible. On the other hand, if two or more museums are fighting over a piece of equipment, there should be some objective way to arrive at an agreement as to who can give it a better home. For that, we probably need a second Solomon. I nominate Hume Kading.

Incidentally, at Mid-Continent the "junk" is all stored out back behind the barns, where visitors don't normally wander (although the train goes through there). Of course, that's the place people like us want to go first. I think they generally present an excellent impression to the public.

I'd like to respectfully take exception to the comment made in regards to private collectors. I've found many collectors have prevented numerous scrappings. Furthermore, I have seen many collectors as concerned or more concerned about historical fabric than some museums. Some collectors do better than some museums and some museums do better than some collectors--it' a two-way street. Restaurants on the other hand seem to generally be a different story...But then again, they are not out to run a museum...

God Bless,
Gerald W. Kopiasz
Heartland Railroad Historical Society

> That's a good question; it largely depends
> on what the alternatives are. Most often, if
> the equipment will otherwise be scrapped,
> it's much better off being preserved, even
> if restoration is a long way off. If it
> falls into the hands of a restaurant or
> private collector, who knows what they might
> do to it? Cars have doors cut in the sides,
> historic fabric is discarded without any
> documentation, and eventual restoration
> becomes nearly impossible. On the other
> hand, if two or more museums are fighting
> over a piece of equipment, there should be
> some objective way to arrive at an agreement
> as to who can give it a better home. For
> that, we probably need a second Solomon. I
> nominate Hume Kading.

> Incidentally, at Mid-Continent the
> "junk" is all stored out back
> behind the barns, where visitors don't
> normally wander (although the train goes
> through there). Of course, that's the place
> people like us want to go first. I think
> they generally present an excellent
> impression to the public.


hrrhs@aol.com

> This is a hot topic for me. I do believe
> that we have lost far too many artifacts to
> preservationists who obtain these things and
> then let them go to pot. There are a very
> few (thank goodness) who do this almost
> intentionally with the attitude - "if I
> can't have it nobody else can either".

Yes, and there are one or two legitimate museums that have the attitude that they will take anything and everything, no matter how irrelvant, junky or hopeless it is, and no matter whether they ever have any intention to restore, display or even stabilize it, just to prevent any other museum from getting it.

And I still don't see very many willing to state the obvious truth: Some of the stuff that gets pined and whined over is just old junk; it's not worth the diversion of what are obviously finite resources into it.

As someone posted earlier, trying to save everything will ultimately result in the inability to save anything. Too many of our museums and displays already tend to make the public's eyes glaze with the slavish attention to unfathomably tiny and often hidden detail differences between, say, one tender and another.

As an example, on another list right now there is a discussion going on about what is the "most historic" locomotive on a western class 1, and how all stops must be pulled out to save it. The "historic siginifcance?" Weel, it could have been painted this way, but it wasn't, and it could have been numbered that way, but it wasn't, and it it was the first one I saw, and it was ordered by an obscure, long-gone railroad but was never painted for or operated by that railroad, and it has one less door on one side than the other 2,000 units of the same model.

Try interpreting THAT to a guy, his wife and their 2.3 kids and expect them to either understand, care, donate, volunteer, or tell all their friends and relatives that this is THE place to go on vacation and learn about railroad history..

Sorry, but mid continents back lot does look like a junk yard. Why cant they put up buildings like real good museums like illinois railway museum does to keep the cars in until they fix them? Ill bet the money they spent on restoring that last car could have put up a couple sheds.

NW

cnwguy@juno.com

> Sorry, but mid continents back lot does look
> like a junk yard. Why cant they put up
> buildings like real good museums like
> illinois railway museum does to keep the
> cars in until they fix them?

> NW

They probably could if every person who made the above statement would write out a check payable to Mid Continent Railway Museum instead of just complaining.

davelecount@juno.com