I would not be surprised if my name, face, and e-mail address were around the B&O Museum on "wanted" posters or paper targets these days, given the fiery verbal reaction I received from a couple B&O volunteers and/or staff today as the AAPRCO convention special was backed into the Museum. To wit, I will reply with what I consider to be fair and objective responses that the Museum members or volunteers appear unwilling to post themselves.

1) The string of graffitied vintage B&O freight cars depicted on this Board earlier is sitting on Museum property, and in NO DANGER whatsoever from the scrappers at adjacent United Iron & Metal. As one person noted, "If they touch even one of our cars, we'd OWN them [United]!" Furthermore, United does not even deal in scrapping railroad cars.
Nevertheless, this was just as I saw the cut-up remains of a former Conrail ballast hopper next to the cars, cut up by a wreck clean-up company after an earlier derailment on the CSX main nearby. This was eerily close to the circumstances under which I lost the two Lehigh Valley two-bay hopper cars donated to museums on my behalf by a power plant in the 1980s--a scrapper from outside the area started on the wrong end of the string of cars on the siding.

2) The cars in question came to the Museum for free, and are supposedly duplicates to other cars in the collection, being held in reserve as possible parts sources should they be needed during restoration of the best of the cars.

One individual disputed my report of the reefer being "firebombed"; I say the charred wood outside the car's doors and the visible smoke/fire stains say otherwise. But if it is indeed a duplicate car, the loss is minimal, if any.

3) A well-placed individual within the organization stated to me "You want to see the [AFT 1/Reading 2101] repainted? Write out a check for $58,000!" Furthermore, the option of a quick repaint rather than a full top-to-bottom needle-gunning and proper repaint was flatly (and rightly, in my opinion) dismissed.

I take this to mean that an estimate of a full and professional repaint of 1/2101 is already on the table; it only needs funding. Any of you Reading fans up there ready to pass the hat and/or come down and help?

4) In the long run, I will concede that the B&O Museum still rates as one of the best rail preservation institutions in the world. I am not on a personal Museum-bashing agenda, and I do wish them all the best in their endeavors.

However, I do feel that there are criticisms that can be made with any such institution, the others I work with included. I would like to hope that the criticisms I do voice with this place and others are well-reasoned and thought out, based on 20+ years in this field. (I just participated in a couple seemingly productive "cracker-barrel" discussions on the future of Maine two-foot-gauge rail preservation, which included preparing to search Cuban roster sheets for possible 27 1/2" gauge steamers for repatriation and conversion to Maine replicas.)

If I make glaring mistakes or mistaken assumptions, it is surely the place of those involved to correct me or inform others of "the REST of the story". I don't mind being made a fool of for the right cause. Don't make a sales pitch; just make me out to be a jackass. I'm up to the challenge. But stop sulking in silence, please.

lner4472@bcpl.net

Chama, EBT, Steamtown, Baltimore, IRM, Mid C...

Is there something nasty in the coal smoke this fall? There's been a lot of talk about museums letting things rot. Of course, it all comes back to the old devils of time and money.

9/10ths of these posts are cannibalism. Instead of banding together and truly promoting a preservation community, some very smart and respected folks are drving more stakes of division into the hearts of those who care.

Don't $$%* in your own nest. Don't eat your own. Simple, really. ;-)

Call me idealistic, but I think if we stop villianizing others that share our interests, we have a better chance of raising funds, getting serious resources flowing and enjoying our passion.

I don't like to see #2101 look like she does, but it's not like the B&O is in idle. They are trying to pull off a major steam show next year. I think we can cut them some slack sicne they have prioritized. And she is far from the most sigificant piece on Pratt Street that needs paint.

Not to mention restoring the last Porter-built stamer to service in the past 12 months.

This is not a museum that is neglectful, it is a museun working with the realities of 2002 AND trying to pull off the biggest rail event in east in over 50 years.

If that works, the benefits of exposure will pay for more than one loco to get care.

Rob Davis

PS: Dave's idea of guerilla painting is great. I bet you could get a few Reading guys for that.



Ahead of the Torch
trains@robertjohndavis.com

> Chama, EBT, Steamtown, Baltimore, IRM, Mid
> C...

> Is there something nasty in the coal smoke
> this fall? There's been a lot of talk about
> museums letting things rot.

Rob, is it necessarily just this fall? Lets consider who we are as a group. We all for various reasons-have developed an interest in something that necessarily entails the potential for frustration and disagreement. Here's a few reasons (IMHO):

1.) The size and scale of what we are trying to preserve requires enormous amounts of capital-but which we seem relatively inept (compared to the billions-yes thats a "b"- other types of organizations seem capable of raising at the drop of a hat) at obtaining.

No, we'll never have the innate pull on the soul of a 9/11 relief fund-but we should be as good as getting bucks as the multitude of art museums that call throwing paint at a canvas, soup cans or human excrement compelling art.

2.) The unresolved issues of operational vs. static preservation-which is in part because it is basically irresolvable. This is best exemplified by the existence of two polar opposites- those that want to stuff and mount (only) and those that want to run, even if theres no financing provision for heavy maintenance. Of course, in the long run both those extremes are uneconomical. The "stuffers" won't generate enough revenue and the "damn the maintenance full speed aheaders" don't control costs.

3.) Victories are so few and far between. The last few remaining roundhouses are falling, Lagrange and Lima are soon to be shopping malls (or some other icon of progress)- its more than a little quixotic to fight the forces of economics-which unfortunately feature "creative destruction"

4.) The loss of a multitude of railroads with the time, inclination, personnel and infrastructure to act as hosts. No more reading, CNJ, IC and other roads who ran steam in the 60's and 70's. Thanks, CP and UP for having a soul and a sense of enlightenned self interest.

5.) The "litigation tax" brought to us by a court system that seems intent on making plunder by hired guns weilding lawsuits a more invasive and prevalent part of our life. So long 1522.

>it all comes back to the old devils of time and
> money.

So true! However, I think part of the problem is an excessive focus on the THING and not the business. However to be productive, here's a suggestion.

If you are a struggling museum with a 501c3-start making contacts with Financial Planners,Atty's, CPA's and Insurance Agents-they'll likely have a supply of people who will employ gifting as an estate planning tool. We're just as worthy as the local art museum or the local university. You may have accept the donation with strings- donor imposed requirements on use-but is that so bad?

Some posts on here are cannabilstic-but we have to be careful not to stifle vigorous debate. Skip the ad hominen attacks but be mindful that this produces stong emotions- if we were "people" persons, with all kinds of oozy empathy- we'd be working with something other an big hunks of steel.

superheater@beer.com

Sorry you got that reception. Also sorry they won't take a free 5 year paint job while they look for the $58K. Thanks for trying.

Look for European 60CM gage 0-4-0T's to convert to 2 foot 0-4-4's. German examples were common industrial goats all over Eastern Europe (with some Czech and other examples) and British engines went to such places as South Africa and Oz. Easier than narrowing from 27.5". And, we are dealing with those governments.

Poland has some modern 0-8-0's which are probably a bit large and heavy.

Keep talking about what's going on - something might happen as a result. I always figured if you weren't pizzing somebody off you weren't getting anything worthwhile accomplished.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

guerilla restoration projects
1. I knock no one because I and mine are a perfect example of lack of preservation. Sorry there ain't no money for maintenence let alone restoration.
2. Paint is protection, not pretty ... do not come around and offer to slap a coat of paint on any of my equipment ...I'd rather have the rust and rust pack in the open rather that hidden for a month under a quicky paint job. Remember that every $58,000 paint job is $56,000 prep and $2,000 paint.
3. I don't expect a gang of volunteers to sit there with needleguns numbing their hands and arms and minds trying to do a job that is best done with blasting. I have many hours with one of these and at best do 8 sqft/day properly (averaging four days of work before my hands and forearms really lose it!)
4. A classic example of "patch and paint" are our Long Island coaches. Leaks around the windows caused the sides and side sills to rot out. A truely magnificent amount of bondo was slapped into holes smoothed over with a broom and painted, without doing anything about the window leaks. Water is now retained in these locations and does a magnificent job of continuing the problem, and bids are going out for new paint jobs.
5. Enough, better days are coming!


lamontdc@adelphia.net

I was not complaining about the B&O Museum and the 2101. I was simply pointing out a bit of irony. I do agree that there are a few places they can improve but I see lots of stuff they are doing right.

The B&O Museum does have a collections plan/policy in place. We have seen them find good homes for equipment that does not fit the plan. This is not evident at other museums that seem to be on a collecting rampage. These places look hell bent on filling every inch of track with equipment they will never be able to care for.

The B&O Museum is housed in some of the most historic railroad buildings anywhere. The long-term survival of these building is pretty much assured.

The B&O Museum also operates locomotives and trains to demonstrate railroading. They are not the stuffy cold museum that preserves the rust inside a boiler for the elitist. In education it has been proven that demonstrations and hand-on activities are the most powerful learning activities and they have capitalized on this and done well.

In addition to providing safekeeping for lots of super artifacts they also maintain a large paper collection that many people never even think about.

Tom Gears

Super,

You make some excellent points. Most of all, I agree that you do not want to squelch debate. I do believe the debate can be friendly and not at all accusatory.

I have my bones to pick, for sure. I continue to learn that the way to deal with them is with respect and interest. Instead of a public whipping, sit down over a coffee and discuss concerns. Or, engage in a web debate that keeps things on a respectful level.

I know we're not all "people" people, and that's cool. I humbly suggest that we work to remeber that behind every running loco and even the rusting hulks, that there are people, too. They have feelings, make mistakes, love and dislike just like the rest of us.

Some may be real jerks, but you never get anywhere if you lead with "Dear Jerk." No matter how good it feels at the moment.

;-)

Rob

trains@robertjohndavis.com

There have been posts complaining about the museum I am associated with in the past, don't even mention the 4018 restoration to me, and I am sure there will be other negiative comments in the future. All I can do is comment about why in my opinion certain actions are taken.

.



tcox@parknet.pmh.org

I agree with everything you say - with one caveat. It's all true for things that are going to be left out in the rain from time to time. I was also a part of the guerrilla paint job on C of G #8, the oldest surviving C of G engine I believe. Our particular circumstances here in Savannah, landlocked with a huge roundhouse, means we don't have to leave things out in the weather. Being landlocked automatically tightens up your collections policy. Old Maude spent quite a few years out in the weather in a park in Macon, luckily, the scrapper who took possesion of her in 1947 thought she was worth more in the park than cut up. But, the elements took their toll. Now, the engine will never see rain again. A quickie paint job will last just fine until we can do better. And it wasn't such a quickie job. Angel, who came up with the whole idea, spent two hard weeks going over her with a cup brush and patching holes. No, it's not perfect. But it looks a )&*^) of alot better, which is good, as it's one of the pieces people can see BEFORE they decide to fork over the three bux to come in.

Alex, don't get me wrong with the original post. I appreciated your picture and update on the 2101. It's important for fans to be made aware about what is happening to artifacts they truly care about. I am a regular contributor to the briefs section as well as Interchange. Unfortunately, I voiced an opinion stating "I'd like to see her back in Reading colors and back in Pennsylvania, and boom! The discussion exploded into a war of comments like "Put up or shut up!" and "When are you gonna write the check?" Really, I find it sad that a voiced opinion is interpreted as "throwing down the gauntlet". Maybe some of us love the motive power and have a desire to see it restored in a particular period scheme? Ultimately, it's up to the owners and care-takers to decide about accession or deaccession. I agree that if I want to see an engine in a particular scheme and I have the means to underwrite that, it would be a sensible, kind, and worthy expenditure. Since I don't have that kind of cash available, I still want the privilege to scream to the stars that I preferred seeing 2101 in Reading colors and would rather it be in Pennsylvania. No harm done as far as I can see. Am I wrong?

glueck@maine.edu

> Rob, your "bones" usually have some meat, so I hope you didn't think it was for you. Just general observations.

Every once in a while it seems that gentility (hell does anybody use that anymore) becomes the overarching concern- and the genesis is usually a reasonable post like yours. Suddenly the chorus arises- "can't we all just get along" and everybody wants to sing kumbaya.

I think this is an instrinsically frustrating advocation and the occasional outburst is going to happen.

Just like I get worried when the major political parties are too nice to each other (sure sign john q public is going to fork it over)-I would be worried if we didn't have the occasional post on here that smoldered if not flamed.

As for the 2101 issue, Our friends in Baltimore have to allocate scarce resources and there will be those that disagree how they do it.



superheater@beer.com

I hear you, Super.

I promise not to hold any sleep-ins, preservation peace marches or social disruptions at paint sessions.

You are right that building a community doesn't mean we can't disagree, debate and fight for our points.

I am working on a peace symbol shaped hanlde for a spike maul.

;-)

Rob

trains@robertjohndavis.com

Rob:
I promise that anyone willing to get down and dirty with any one of my projects can feely express their opinions on just about any subject!



lamontdc@adelphia.net

I have removed the response to this post as it violated the Interchange Terms of Service. Soory I didn't do it sooner, but I was attending ARM this week and have been away from the Internet since Wednesday.

eledbetter@rypn.org

I'm also clearly too tired to spell. Apologies for the bad typography.

eledbetter@rypn.org