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 Post subject: Have you had this happen to you?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Pacific, MO
There's a person down in FL who is a big presence on ebay and seems to specialize in "pirated" images. I'm not really sure if there's anything that can be done about it but it really pisses me off to see images for sale on ebay that I own the negative to.
Someone bought an original Frisco diesel slide for a small fortune a couple of weeks ago and last week, I see this guy selling 4x6 prints of the same image.
I guess the internet is both a blessing and a curse. Whatever the case, this is just wrong.
I've written him about it and he has a real attitude (putting it mildly)
If you see something show up out there that is from something you own it's happening to you.
Maybe if enough people bitched him out about it he might think twice.
Most of his stuff is pretty bad also.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you had this happen to you?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:05 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Between Things
If he is selling copyrighted material, the copyright holder should complain directly to eBay. Two or three complaints and eBay will cut him off, maybe permanently.

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 Post subject: Re: Have you had this happen to you?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12147
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
"A" person?

I would wager there are dozens, if not hundreds or thousands, doing this. Just in different fields of enthusiasm.

We've seen this happen with original artwork in DeviantArt, on Facebook, on Etsy, and other creative-arts-marketing sites. My wife, her agent, and many of the agent's clients "went to war" against one bozo that pirated scores of artworks as "his own," in spite of the fact that the styles were as diverse as could be. "Cease and desist" letters and notifications to ISPs, eBay, etc. work much better when they're sent by the actual copyright holder.

I hate to tell you this, but even if you explicitly were assigned a copyright transfer along with your negative purchase, your hopes of doing anything about this are slim to none. Is the money in question worth the lawyerese, the C&D letters, etc? Probably not. Your only options are to never show the photo to anyone electronically except to potential publishers (thus reducing its value, since no one can want what they don't know about), watermarking the heck out of your photos, and/or putting them online at idiotically low resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you had this happen to you?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:39 am
Posts: 534
railfan44 wrote:
If he is selling copyrighted material, the copyright holder should complain directly to eBay. Two or three complaints and eBay will cut him off, maybe permanently.


No they won't. He has stolen images from books of one of the organizations I belong to with current copyrights. We have complained to ebay numerous times and they tell us our information is not detailed enough or they say the amount is too small and they suggest we hire an attorney which of course is impractical. The seller is king on ebay since they generate the revenue.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you had this happen to you?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Pacific, MO
It's not worth the expense of legally pursuing any of it. It's just morally wrong and then to cop an attitude about it just adds to the annoyance.
I don't mind sharing my stuff with others, but damned if I want some bozo making money off of it.
Ebay knows how to screw with the sellers too. I'm going around with them right now over one of their ridiculous requirements. Not worth boring you with the details.
I really wish there was some competition for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you had this happen to you?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:48 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:25 am
Posts: 133
Location: Across the river from Baldwin's on the Naugy
You might want to browse the http://www.ecommercebytes.com site for more information as to how to handle the issues (or not).


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 Post subject: Re: Have you had this happen to you?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:32 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Toronto, Ontario
This is an interesting topic and I understand your frustration but in this day and age, the problem of copyright is fraught with problems. First copyright laws are different depending on the state you're in. Second, you mentioned you bought this slide but how do you know it is an original? I've seen many copies of the same image advertised as "original" slides on ebay. Third, as someone mentioned already, you may own the slide, but not necessarily the copyright. While I suppose you can argue the sale of the original slide / negative by the original photographer implies the copyright goes with it given they can't do anything with the image any more, I'm not sure how well that would hold up if challenged. Fourth, just becuase someone assigns the copyright to you, how do you know it was theirs to assign to begin with? With all the copying and trading of photos over the last 75 years and collections changing hands, it would be nearly impossible to trace who now holds the true copyright to anything. I understand your frustration, but you're probably best to enjoy your slide for what it is, and be done with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Have you had this happen to you?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:48 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
eldiner wrote:
railfan44 wrote:
If he is selling copyrighted material, the copyright holder should complain directly to eBay. Two or three complaints and eBay will cut him off, maybe permanently.


No they won't. He has stolen images from books of one of the organizations I belong to with current copyrights. We have complained to ebay numerous times and they tell us our information is not detailed enough or they say the amount is too small and they suggest we hire an attorney which of course is impractical. The seller is king on ebay since they generate the revenue.

I worked for dot-com companies doing exactly this stuff. I've done the actual deleting, I've worked with Legal to set our policies, and I handled a lot of customer contacts. I am not a lawyer and didn't work in legal.

You may have noticed anyone can post stuff on the web now. This is a change. This freedom is possible because they changed the law. A) hosting web sites are immune to lawsuit, but B) they must provide an easy way for you to remove content that infringes your copyright. This law, 512(c)(3)(A), standardized how everyone handles copyright complaints. The procedure is informally called a DMCA takedown.

In actual practice, we get two kinds of complaints.
1. Those which are formatted correctly.
2. Those which are not.

From: tomsmart/at/hell.gov Hi there. I'm Tom Smart, 123 Main, Hell MI 48169, 734-555-1234. Your customer has a website with this URL. (url here) There is a picture of locomotive BNSF 4515 in the snow on a curve, see attached. That's my picture. As the copyright owner I honestly believe I did not authorize that use of this picture. I swear under penalty of perjury that the above is true. You may take this as my electronic signature, or I'll be happy to fax you a real one.

Let's see if this free-form complaint contains the six elements required by law.

i) Signature? Check
ii) Clear identification of the work you own? Check
iii) Specific links to the stuff that's violating copyright? Check
iv) Your name, address, phone and email? Check
v) Statement of good-faith belief? Check
vi) Swear under penalty of perjury? Check

Yup, easy as pie: Deleted. NEXT!

From: bull.headed/at/foo.com. Argh! Your user Joe Infringer is doing it again! Everything on his site is ripped off, a lot of it from me! Those are my son's pictures, I was with him when he took them and it breaks my heart because he was lost to leukemia last year. Look, I've written to you a dozen times and you never ever do anything! Your dirty company always sides with your customers because of the ad dollars you get, and us little guys can never catch a break. You keep sending me to this hogwash form and I'm not giving you my phone number.
it goes on just like this for 12 more paragraphs, mostly run-on.


Have any luck finding the 6 elements? It's an emotionally compelling story, but he didn't follow the format, and he didn't give us enough information or specific enough information to find it as we did above.

In my experience, once you have 2-3 go-rounds with someone like this, he'll never figure it out. He won't read form letters. He will argue line by line with a personal note. He'll tie you up on the phone for 2 hours and won't listen to a word. There's something "stuck" in him, that prevents him from grasping the procedure let alone doing it. Eventually you reach wit's end. He needs to hear it from somebody else, and you're only allowed to say "talk to a lawyer". Sadly he'll get the exact same advice. *shrug*

Really, anyone could help Bull, long as he has a fresh mind that isn't "stuck" like Bull's. His friend, wife, kid... even Bull himself if he can get unstuck. Yes, the provider will comply, because they want the immunity they get if they do.


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