I just thought Trains's latest promo concerning the A4 "deal" was just a little too funny. If you haven't seen it, it headlines:

That, however, is THE news...

That the Museum turned down a million dollar offer on it's British steam engine now on loan and in the UK. They later stated the engine was appraised at 5 million dollars and they would turn down even that amount.

The Museum, being the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay.

Can you name the 70 pieces of equipment in it's collection?

Did you know there is a Santa Fe 2-10-4 there? Neither did I, and I visited the Museum.

As a "National Museum", it would seem to make sense to highlight and care better for the national items it has collected. 5 million dollars would seemingly go a long way towards that goal. Sure - they would lose a prized engine with some national significance, but look what they would have to gain. And in return, the A4 class British Railways 60008 "Dwight D. Eisenhower" would be restored to operation, albeit, in the UK.

/Mitch

We're not talking about something rusting out back, the Ike was indoors and in pretty decent shape since it'd been shipped in across the pond.
This whole, "you should sell object A and use that to restore the rest" really only makes sense when it isn't a likely drawing card for the museum or not well cared for to start with...
I daresay, suggesting NRM sell the Ike just for the money would almost be like Roanoke selling the 611 to another group (and I don't mean the NS), when I'm sure plenty of people come to the NRM to see that A4 sitting indoors.

The A4 decision would likely be guided by the collections policy at NRM in Green Bay.
See also: Recommended Practices published by the Associated of Railway Museums.

Wesley

I agree with p51 I mean the Ike is a treasure for the NRM. The A4 has the name of the former commander & chief of the western allies in WWII in Europe and former President of the US. I believe the A4 was a gift from the British as a token for saving them and Europe from Germany maybe. The Ike is indoors and in decent shape it was built in Brittan but it belongs in an museum no matter where it is. The Ike belongs to the NRM in the US because of the name and just like any other museum they have things made or found in other countries. If an American went to Brittan today and wanted to buy an U.S. Army S160 or any other locomotive for a million bucks and the museum said no well then worth a shot. If you have a treasure don't get rid of it diffidently if it worth big bucks. This could be like comparing apples and oranges but I could be wrong. It's just thought

Firstly its 'Britain' not brittan and secondly why would the UK need another A4 and who says it would be restored to operating condition ? Its been heavily overhauled in the UK after looking pretty shabby in her home in the US and will be returned in great shape for further display, it was an amazing event and something only the mad people in the UK could accomplish...well done everyone.
PS to Illinois RR Museum...can we have UP Turbine 18 for Cheyenne Depot Days please ?


Mike Pannell

I am not necessarily feverant on the idea - however, I think it would be great to see the Museum's other engines cleaned up, have their boiler sheets put back on as well as what ever appliances /rods may have been removed and then displayed in such a way that they can actually be appreciated (not side by side outdoors under a canopy).

There's a drawing card! That, and of course, a Big Boy, an Aero Train and a GG1.

There would probably be enough left over to get a WI native back on the roster - seems the IRM was at one time willing to consider giving up #265. And that money in return could be well used for current and future IRM projects.

Just some thoughts.

/Mitch

IRM never once actually considered giving up Milwaukee Road #265. The people behind the move just made is sound like there was.

First off, it is their's to do with what they please..... It's always been my understanding that there is no record of the locomotive actually having played any "historic" role during WWII, correct? That is to say, other than just being a locomotive of that type....from the UK... ti has no significance.

Enlightenment please, Jason

Mitch,

Not to be pendantic, but the museum in question that owns the A4 is the National Railroad Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin (Not to be confused with the National Railway Museum in York, England).

Lest we get confused with the Museum of Transporation in St. Louis, which used to be known as the National Museum of Transport....

Actually, it's the National RailWAY Museum in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
No, it's not. Just kidding. Thanks for the correction. I appended above.

/Mitch

Convince UP to move it and send a big enough check and I'm sure the BOD will consider it.

The A4 has ties to both the US, via Eisenhower, and to Britain via construction and use... Neither have exclusive rights to its preservation…

Similarly, Colorado preservationists (also known as railfans) agitate for the return of the Uintah locomotive owned by the Nevada State Railroad Museum (having been sold by Uintah to Pinoche, and so preserved in Nevada) and for the movie copy of RGS 20 from Jackson California (since sold to parties in Colorado) and hope for the return of the train set from Knotts Berry Farm…

Californians are less aggressive but would like to see certain West Side Lumber Co shays in Colorado returned to California as well as the Lake Tahoe passenger car displayed at the Colorado Railroad Museum…

There is a California passenger car in Michigan… with several Colorado passenger cars…

Nevada would like the V&T Baldwin 2-6-0 displayed at the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum back in Nevada… (in Pennsylvania it represents an early Baldwin… a factory located in Pennsylvania)

There are Utah streetcars in California, and Colorado lo comotives in Utah… California streetcars in Maine… Boston streetcars in Maine… What is a San Diego car doing in Baltimore (Sandy, I know why... )

There were Victoria BC interurban spread across the west coast, most since returned…

A narrow gauge railroad in Alaska and the Yukon has passenger cars from California… we want those back too…

There are Alaskan engines in Kentucky (maybe Tenn) and in OK… there are Hawaiian engines in PA and Connecticut and California and Japan…

My museum has had a call from someone from Oregon calling for return of our Oregonian box cars, built in California, used in Oregon for 13 years, then in California for 4 years, then in Nevada for 20-60 years… Yes, he demanded it back but it has ties based on builder or user in 3 states… but he lives in Oregon and they want it back… (we may have ignored the argument)

I can see the A4 returning to Britain… or staying in Green Bay… both are appropriate homes… but neither has exclusive rights to preserve the locomotive… I note that previously Green Bay sent cars from Churchill’s funeral train back to Britain…

We collectively need to be aware of geography, aware of the various geographical connections, yet understand that geography has is not a legal argument for where a piece can or should be preserved.

Randy

Look at their Facebook cover pages fast. Guess which one is a British railway museum.



Now look at the "likes". It's not fair. It's just not fair.

Would anyone in hte USA care if it had its original name "Golden Shuttle"?