Over the years I've encountered plenty of "unruly" kids. Often they're running through the cars alone, and simply asking them to take me to their parents or guardian and then saying "Your child is welcome to walk through the train and explore, but for their safety, please accompany them when they do so." has solved the vast majority of the issues.

Even in cases where parents can't solve the issue, for whatever reason, seeing a crew member attempt to resolve the issue, by speaking with the parents, offering to move them to a different location etc, at least shows the crew has worked to resolve the issue when possible.

Typically the worst offenders are adults, often "well lubricated".

During a wedding party at one railroad, we had a fellow who decided to climb over the back railing of an observation car and onto the engine. The good news? At least we were stopped at the time. The bad news? Unknown to him, we were stopped since we were disconnecting the engine.

He grabs the ladder rungs on the tender with his hands. The brakeman got the pin and signaled the engine to pull ahead (Not thinking to look up in the air above his head for misguided drunks first, can you blame him?) The engine slowly pulls ahead, and the fellow hangs on to the ladder while his feet are still on the railing. He stretches out nearly horizontal, feet on the railing, hands on the ladder, until his feet were no longer in contact with the railing. He swings forward, does a full body slam into the tender, and then sort of slides down onto the track looking a lot like something out of a Roadrunner cartoon.

No major injuries, though I suspect he pretty was bruised up the next day. We never heard any more about it, probably since he was the best man and the bride and groom were both mortified and well aware he'd had far too much to drink.

Organizational policies and procedures should be in place to offer training and guidance for situations like these. Most, if not all, organizations have operating rules as well as safety rules. I believe a set of policies and procedures in the form of a "passenger train operations manual" would be beneficial. I am happy to say that I am a member of an organization that is conducting station and passenger train crew training at this time.

I think we all agree there should be policies and procedures in place. We're back to the easy part, everyone says that's a great idea, sounds wonderful.

The real question is how do you (the management team) develop those policies? Are there standards and guidelines available from any of the museum organizations? Instead of each group re-inventing the wheel, are there resources available?

And that, Bob, was the core of my initial question. After I left the experience I was in over the weekend, I seriously pondered if there was such a guideline at all. And if there isn't, there certainly should be, for everyone's sake.

I agree that guidelines and policies are needed. I don't think we need to debate that.

The tricky part is creating and implementing it. It's going to be a large judgement call on the part of the operating employees. You can't write a manual for every situation, and if if you could, the employee has to make some calls on whether it's just bad behavior, bad parenting, mental issues, physical issues, alcohol or drugs, etc. etc.

As usual, it's simple to say "You should have a policy", and sound like you're solving the problem, but the devil is in the details.

When I was at TVRM, we simply applied old railroad practices. If a party acted in an unacceptable manner after being informed by the conductor and given an opportunity to correct their behavior, they would be put off (ejected) at the next station and the unused portion of their fare refunded. If it was apparent that it would not be possible to eject the passenger without force, the conductor was to have local law enforcement remove the passenger. Fortunately, I never had occasion to eject a passenger.

Working as a motorman for Old Pueblo Trolley, we followed old street railway practices. Due to the nature of our operation, instructions to crews were that intoxicated persons could not be denied transportation simply due to their intoxication. As long as they paid the fare and did not endanger or disturb other passengers, we would provide them transportation. The regulations are that if a passenger is an annoyance to others, the motorman will call the passenger's attention to their conduct. If they fail to correct the offensive behavior or endanger themselves or another passenger, the motorman will stop the car at the next Car Stop and eject the passenger. If physical force is required, the Motorman will contact the Dispatcher and request law enforcement to respond and eject the passenger. Our operation has historically been unique as we have always conducted our operations as a private carrier operating entirely on a public right of way.

Ok. As a start, I think the first step for any organization to develop and implement policies and procedures is to consult with other similar organizations. Starting from scratch may not be necessary. Take a look at what the other organizations are working with. Adopt, adapt, or create whatever will work for your organization. Can you plan a contingency for everything? No, but you can establish a foundation. Discretion and judgment will take over where the policies and procedures leave off. With that said, not all people possess the same set of people skills. If you can get your organization to recognize the need and agree on a set of policies and procedures, you're off to a good start.

To me this sounds like a great seminar to develop and present to ATTRRM one year.

Randy, are there guidelines that RMNE uses as part of its training? If so, can you try to obtain permission to post them here and share them?

I will see what I can provide. RMNE has recently implemented passenger train and station crew training. I think it may be a great opportunity to network among organizations, if not already underway.

This kid didn't get tired for a very long time, more than halfway through the ride. He was there with several adults, most of whom took it upon themselves to do a half-a**'d attempt to physically force him to shut up. It only made things worse. The man I think was his father was a typical weak authority figure and his threats were ignored totally as there was zero follow-through.
The truly annoying thing was they knew he was ticking me off (they even told him to stop yelling so close to me), I had my finger in my near-side ear as he was so freaking loud. He didn't have any obvious issues other than serious volume control. He had only one volume level and his apparent brother was used to that as he was doing an admirable job to ignoring him totally.
This kind of stuff will happen, from various causes. Nothing any of us can do to stop this from happening from time to time.

Be sure and video the tantrums, for use later. 2 can play that game.

So, how does getting video of this kid help me in this situation? I was clearly messing with my cell phone (texting a pal with a blow-by-blow of the event as it happened), the family didn't know I wasn't getting video.
I've never understood why people video everything like this, most of the time it accomplishes nothing and people often villify the person with the camera anyway.

Actually, putting the parents on video is likely counterproductive. Hopefully, the parents would be so embarrassed that they would strangle the kid until he either shut up, or turned blue and passed out; either way at least he'd be quiet. Poke a cell phone out there like you are taping this, and now the parents are afraid you will turn them in for child abuse if they even touch a hair on his head.

Many transit agencies and school buses are now using on board video that tapes continuously. It's quite helpful for prosecuting suspects as well as determining exactly what happened. Here's a recent example from Seattle, where a man was threatening passengers at gunpoint.

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Surveil ... 08751.html

Admittedly, this probably isn't practical for small and seasonal operations, but as the costs of video cameras and storage decreases, it may be practical at some point, especially on operation that have small vehicles and limited consists like a streetcar.

Also, as others have pointed out, whether or not the employee shoots video may not matter, as soon as something "interesting" happens, it's quite likely that somebody in the crowd will be shooting video, and that documentation could prove helpful or harmful, depending on your actions. I think we've all seen lots of high profile cases where the video disproved statements by the individuals involved.

This definitely sounds like a good candidate for a "standards and best practices" type manual. It would be far more efficient than each operation creating them from scratch, and presumably having a lawyer look over the policy is also a good idea. There may be legal implications that aren't obvious.

As an example, I was on board a recent excursion where they experienced a delay and were expecting additional delays at before reaching the final destination. I had boarded at an intermediate terminal, and made an offer to the trip organizer that I could haul 3 passengers to the final destination if there folks upset with the delays. The organizer declined my offer, saying that they were responsible for the passengers until they got to the final terminal, and if something was to happen while I was driving them back, the group could be held liable.

I'm not certain what the actual legalities are, but this is something that could be an issue if you decide to take passengers off the train at an intermediate point. Is the railroad liable for them until they reach the ticketed destination? What if a well meaning volunteer drives out, picks them up and then is in involved in an accident in his personal vehicle on the return trip? This stuff gets complicated quickly, doesn't it?

As long as the railroad does not permit a volunteer to transport the party or provide alternate transportation, it remains simple. As long as the railroad refunds the unused portion of the fare and detrains the parties pursuant to their regulations and any additional laws, the duty of the railroad to the parties ceases (if the regulations were properly written). Our rules stated that passengers may only be ejected at a station or other safe location in such manner that will not place them in danger and where they have reasonable access to shelter and alternate transportation.