Removing passengers from the train between station stops should the very last resort. That is unless the situation absolutely requires it, such as a medical emergency or to turn a situation over to law enforcement. Some operations only embark and disembark passengers in one location. In the course of removing someone from a train at a point other than the embarkation, you encounter several concerns. As eluded to before, transporting passengers back to their vehicles in situations other than those requiring public safety resources, can be "tricky". Providing transportation back to the embarkation point, in my opinion, should be the responsibility of the removed passenger, as it was a result of their conduct that put them off the train in the first place. I believe that the railroad's responsibility to the passenger is fulfilled once they have been removed from the train and are clear of railroad property. I would however, offer information regarding available transportation service available in the area, such as a cab company, etc. I will remind you that this reflects my own opinion and may not reflect the practices of any organizations of which I am a member.

As a public safety employee, I will say that if you are going to resort to removing someone from a train, it is imperative that you carefully and thoroughly document the incident. That means a written or typed statement that can be presented in the event that legal action is pursued. The public safety community does this for all incidents regardless of service type......law enforcement, EMS, and fire. Video footage in such a situation maybe a valuable asset in regards to documentation. It would be beneficial to make a request to individuals in the car to share any video if anyone captured the situation.

I will also reinforce the suggestion of having legal counsel review any policies and procedures regarding passenger relations prior to their implementation.

Well when it comes to unruly passengers I bet Amtrak has a lot of experience in that matter, maybe someone could get a hold of their guide lines. I remember one situation where a man who was mentally handicap started getting violent, the conductor put himself between the man and the passengers and had everyone disbord, I was very impressed with his conduct in handling the situation.

From what I remember, TVRM's regulations were based on the passenger rules of the old Southern Railway System (as were most of our rules and policies). I also have an old copy of the Amtrak rules, which were similar. Amtrak has rules for all sorts of circumstances, including passenger death aboard the train.

Lifted from the Illinois Compiled Statutes; Railroad Police Act

(610 ILCS 80/3) (from Ch. 114, par. 99)
Sec. 3. When any passenger shall be guilty of disorderly conduct, or use any obscene language, to the annoyance and vexation of passengers, or play any games of cards or other games of chance for money or other valuable thing, upon any railroad train or steamboat, the conductor of such train and captain or master of such steamboat is hereby authorized to stop his train or steamboat, at any place where such offense has been committed and eject such passenger from the train or boat using only such force as may be necessary to accomplish such removal, and may command the assistance of the employees of the railroad company or steamboat, or any of the passengers to assist in such removal; but before doing so he shall tender to such passenger such proportion of the fare he has paid as the distance he then is from the place to which he has paid his fare, bears to the whole distance for which he has paid his fare.

I suspect other states have similar laws.

Note: I am not advocating this as the one and only solution, but it is out there.

While I've never removed a passenger from the train, I have stopped the train to control a situation where a passenger was perched on the railing of a observation car (different fellow from the best man above).

Sitting in the railing, obviously had a couple drinks in the dining car, and maybe a hip flaks or pre-boarding fortification. Started with "Sir, for your own safety, please get down off of the railing..." Two or three more tries, no luck. Got on the radio "I need you to very gently drift to a stop, with as little braking and slack possible." Luckily the engineer knew me well enough to simply say "roger" without asking the obvious WTH?

Walked back outside as we rolled to a stop. Sit there for a moment. "What's going on?" "Well, as I've told you, that's very unsafe. You could easily fall off and get hurt or worse. So I've stopped the train for your safety. Once this is resolved, and you step inside and have a seat, we'll get back underway...."

Now that he was the unwanted center of attention, and delaying everyone's trip, including a small crowd close enough to hear the conversation, he got down, went inside the car and pouted for the rest of the trip. Fortunately it wasn't a murder mystery, or "drunk guy with a dagger killed the conductor in the obs car." might have been the plot.

He later complained. Fortunately, I'd already told them what happened (when we reached the half way point and swapped ends and had a break, the engineer, who was also the GM, said "OK, so what was that about?") and they simply replied something like "We did it for your own safety, sorry for any inconvenience..."

I can assure you that the moment the train stopped, the whole tone changed. Suddenly he knew I was serious, it wasn't funny, and that the situation was now our top priority. This tactic can be useful, but it's also fairly confrontational, so it's way over the top for screaming kids. But in a case where a passenger is endangering themselves or others (do this long enough and you'll see some stupid human tricks) it can work.

Amtrak definitely has a policy.

I remember riding one of the last Montrealers in February 1995, and assisting the crew at Bellows Falls by opening the traps for them as the train glided to a stop with our doors in front of two of Bellows Falls' finest in uniform, smirking slightly, with arms crossed in a "no-nonsense" manner. I stepped back as the crew carefully guided a passenger down in front of them, and the cops practically beamed as the guy boomed, "I jesh wanna SHAY, that I....."

I ignored the rest as I helped on and off what few passengers there were, then as we highballed and closed up the traps, I quietly, discretely asked the conductor "What was that about?"
"Drunk, disorderly, beligerent...."
"That bad, eh?"
The other trainman/onboard service rep/whatever chimed in, "When I was closing up my trap, the one cop was yelling at him 'If you don't shut your yap right now, you're going straight to jail!' And of course he was still mouthing off at them....."

I have also witnessed, at least once that I can confirm and possibly more than that I can't, Amtrak passengers being handed off to police for the possession and use of "controlled substances" aboard the train. If you think it can't happen to your excursion line, think again.

Commuter railroads are forced to deal with these situations as a matter of course, especially with drunken passengers on Friday and Saturday nights. They also definitely have a policy.

I remember a couple of years ago I was a passenger on a late-night (after midnight) train on the LIRR, eastbound out of Penn Station. Twenty minutes out of Manhattan we pulled into Jamaica station, and I knew something was about to go down when I saw a group of half a dozen NYPD officers waiting patiently on the platform, their arms crossed in the same "no-nonsense" manner Sandy describes in the Bellows Falls incident above. They boarded one of the other cars and emerged a minute or two later with a pair of belligerent drunks whom they led away in handcuffs. It was all very efficient.

That was not the end of the show, however. Several more minutes passed, and the train had still not moved. Eventually, the conductor came on the intercom and informed us that he was holding the train until a cleaning crew could arrive, because (and I quote), "As a result of an earlier altercation, there's blood on the floor in one of the cars, and I'm not allowed to move the train until the blood is cleaned up." The car cleaners soon arrived with mops in hand (remember, this is after midnight), and twenty minutes later we were on our way again.

-Philip Marshall

This kinda stuff is the reason I'm glad we only do mainline excursions. We've only had 1 minor issue (not many kids on a $150+ mainline excursion). We had a woman who wanted to hand out brochures for her group's event (don't remember what the event was) and she emailed me about a week before the trip and asked. I politely told her no as we had a no solicitation policy. The day of the trip she cornered me just as we left the station and I again told her no politely and excused myself as I was knee deep in other issues at the time. About half an hour later, I got a radio call from our cafe car about her and that she was standing in the cafe area putting out brochures and pitching her event to cafe customers. At that point, I told her in stronger but still polite terms to return to her seat and there was to be no further solicitation. And hour later, I got a call from one of my car hosts about her walking down their car handing out brochures and bothering the customers. I asked her into the vestibule with the car hosts (gotta have witnesses) and told her that if she didn't return to her seat and stay there, she would be put off at the first safe location with no refund or further assistance in getting back to her point of origin with the exception of a call to the local police. I also let her know that I'd contact the affiliated organization and let them know about the shenanigans. That was the last issue we had that day, but we did get a nasty letter about it after the trip from her. We informed her that she welcome not to ride with us again.

Haven't heard from her since. I should also note that my threat to put her off wasn't an idle one. I had consulted with the Amtrak crew after the cafe car confrontation and they assumed me that they'd be happy to put her off if necessary.

Based on a number of stories I've heard, Amtrak's policy for big problems is simply "contact the local police and have them meet us at the next crossing/station etc." It's also easy to verify a problem in a case like that, as usually the person in question is going to react in the same manner to the police, as in the story above about "Calm down or you're going straight to jail..."

Many commuter agencies have their own security force, try to use a tripod to take photos in a Sound Transit (Seattle) station and you'll most likely have a discussion with them before too long. From what I've heard, they nice enough, but they do keep a close eye on things. I don't know the specifics of exactly what they can and cannot do as far as issuing tickets, making arrests etc, but I do know they work with the local police departments as needed.

Other transit agencies work the same way.

However, that sort of thing isn't practical for the Podunk & Western. The police aren't going to take kindly to "We've got some brat in the open car who won't stop screaming!" I suspect they would assist with a drunk and disorderly type call, but in over 35 years of tourist railroad operations, I can count the number of those cases that I've seen on one hand, so I don't think they're a big part of the problem.

Obviously the local police will help you with the more common issues, shoplifters, break-ins, theft, or at least I hope so, but that's outside of this discussion.

For most issues, the crew is going to be on their own, dealing with silly but annoying problems like why little Johnny won't stop screaming or running through the cars.

Anyone know what policies/guidelines Amtrak has for smaller incidents and problems? They must have them too, so presumably they have a training protocol.

Screaming or misbehaving children can usually be addressed, depending on how your equipment is laid out. Some of the passenger coaches we used had lounges attached to the lavatories. Parents would usually take problem children there to address the issues.

Similar policy is enforced by NJ Transit - if you don't pay your fare or are conducting yourself in a disorderly way, you're met at the next stop - not by local police - but by state police. I believe its also a crime in NJ to assault a transit worker, to the point that the consequences are the same as assaulting a government employee.

SEPTA on the other hand.... well, lets just say, they put the passenger before their employees, regardless of the situation. They will not back up the employee, even if they were physically attacked first and had to defend themselves. Fare evaders are allowed to continue their ride, unless the staff is lucky enough to call on the few transit police working the given shift. The unions have been trying to get their employee's covered the same as NJT, to no avail.