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 Post subject: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2090
A question for those of you who are associated with museums or tourist railroads that have operating equipment:

Does your organization have an established program to teach electrical safety, and what do you use as your standard reference and handouts for such training?

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
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Location: Tucson, Arizona
Old Pueblo Trolley used "The Motorman and His Duties" by NIck Spark for the instruction of operating staff. All of our instructional material included basic information regarding the principal of electric propulson and the applications used by electric traction.

All of our street railway operating staff are required to have a knowledge of the equipment assigned and the methods of responding to various electrical situations. When we operated the overhead system (we no longer operate the line power under the current operating structure), our Dispatchers were required to know the procedures for operating the power rectifier that fed the overhead and associated switch gear. This involved use of insulated staffs to throw knife switches.

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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 777
I think he is talking more about shop electrical safety overall. Railroad shops (new or historical) often are chock full of points of 'concern' regarding electricity. 480vac is used extensively in many shops and also HEP power on trains. That kind of voltage has plenty of hazard associated with it. 600VDC as found on trolleys or inside locomotives has it's own special dangers.

NFPA 70E is the current publication on this matter. I've got a copy somewhere, I will try to dig it up. Many companies hire engineering firms to classify hazards as to class level so you know what protections to take
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFPA_70E

Open switches are an OSHA nightmare. At minimum the person within the boundary would need to be wearing FR rated clothing, quite possible they should be in a full arc flash suit.

http://www.easypower.com/arc_flash/arc_flash_calculator.php


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 494
Location: Northern California
Not answering the original posters question, and I hope to read more with specific answers. But with reguard to shop safety in a trolley shop, several of our volunteers got the material together and built a shop power supply. The heart of this power supply is a 40 amp 480 volt three phase variack and several locomotive sized diodes. When a car comes in the shop the pole is pulled down and the trolley wire is shut off. Testing and trouble shooting is done with the power supply, which puts out 0 to 700 VDC and about the same AC. The over current contactor current trip set point is adjustable, so it you are testing a small contactor that might draw two amps, the power supply can be set to trip at five amps. If testing a traction motor, the trip point can be set at 100 amps. This power supply plugs into the shops 480 volt welding plugs.

This power supply is much better than testing off the trolley, which has a trip point of 1000 amps. It provides the voltage needed, so there are not series resistors hooked up and laying all over the floor. Power leads can be run inside the locomotive or car and connected to the fuse block of the circuit be testing leaving everything else de-energized. The power supply is in wheels and easily is pushed all over the shop.

This power supply made electrical testing and trouble shooting work easier, faster, and safer.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:41 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2090
Pegasuspinto wrote:
I think he is talking more about shop electrical safety overall. Railroad shops (new or historical) often are chock full of points of 'concern' regarding electricity.


Exactly. The museums are 501c3 organizations with an educational mission, and teaching staff and volunteers to work safely on the equipment in the collection is an educational activity.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:59 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
This is an interesting subject, as working with electricity is an important part of street railway preservation as well as the maintenance of diesel electric locomotives, among others. It is certainly true that much of the historic electrical equipment that we use at museums is now forbidden by the NEC. The NEC makes no provisions for historic electrical installations, and many electricians have a mindset that what isn't allowed by tne current edition of the code is now by default unsafe and hazardous. Of course we all know that not to be true.

One thing to consider is that NFPA 70E will not apply to us if our museum is a volunteer operation. Article 90.2 specifically states that "employee workplaces" are covered, meaning that operations that have no employees are by definition excluded. This also applies to OSHA regulations, and is something to carefully consider before volunteer groups hire their first employee.

Secondly, 90.2 (B) states that 70E does not cover installations for generation of power for electric railways, signalling systems and wiring on board railroad rolling stock.

None of this is to imply that you should not follow the spirit of 70E when it comes to electrical safety, but it does mean that installations that fall within these parameters would not be subject to sanctions for noncompliance. It would seem to indicate that following tried and true historic methods and procedures for operating and maintaining certain types of electrical railway equipment is still permissible.

Just some thoughts...

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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
It's another of those "applicability" things which confuse the hell out of people. Right. NEC is intentionally non-applicable to electric traction. Partly because the necessity of design of electric traction flies in the face of the mentality of AC electrical power design in the USA. When you take the 440-side of delta-wired transformers, have a 6-diode bridge rectifier, and then GROUND the negative side... this will make an NEC inspector claw his eyes out because doing that is oh, so very wrong in his world. Not in ours.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 777
I suspect it is not applicable for railway power, not because it's not a good idea, but simply due to lobbying by the railroads. And obviously, simply because they are not a OSHA/NFPA employee doesn't eliminate the danger.

If anyone is still using knife switches, I hope they know they should be more or less RAMMED home, and jerked clear. Not a place for the timid. And extreme caution should be used if a knife switch is being used to interrupt flowing current. I doubt eliminating open knife switches had anything to do with open conductors, and a LOT more to do with the bad things they do if current is actively flowing through when opened (and sometimes closed).

Hopefully anyone working around power/electricity has training from outside the museum in that work. Perhaps at a minimum anyone working as a 'wire jockey' should be cleared for that kind of work specially. 480vac is so unforgiving.....


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:31 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:25 am
Posts: 133
Location: Across the river from Baldwin's on the Naugy
Knife switches are used in the diesel locomotive electrical cabinet (I can only vouch for 1st & 2nd generation locos) using 72vDC.
Naturally, the traction (600vDC or AC) side is another kettle of fish.

Other than "big sparks in here" and the usual Danger 600 volts sign, not much else has been disseminated.

For the operating members, it should be in the worker safety course which is mandatory.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 1184
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Pegasuspinto wrote:
I suspect it is not applicable for railway power, not because it's not a good idea, but simply due to lobbying by the railroads. And obviously, simply because they are not a OSHA/NFPA employee doesn't eliminate the danger.

If anyone is still using knife switches, I hope they know they should be more or less RAMMED home, and jerked clear. Not a place for the timid. And extreme caution should be used if a knife switch is being used to interrupt flowing current. I doubt eliminating open knife switches had anything to do with open conductors, and a LOT more to do with the bad things they do if current is actively flowing through when opened (and sometimes closed).

Hopefully anyone working around power/electricity has training from outside the museum in that work. Perhaps at a minimum anyone working as a 'wire jockey' should be cleared for that kind of work specially. 480vac is so unforgiving.....


When Old Pueblo Trolley was still operating using our own rectifier, we used knife switches to control the power to the car barn overhead and the line overhead. We had an insulated handle specifically for that purpose and all dispatchers were specifically instructed on the operation of the rectifier and knife switches.

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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:28 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2090
So far we have discussed standards, how about safety programs and program resources.

So lets suggest a place to start. How about here:

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/m3en/training/safety/

They have PFD documents you can download and a free to view training video on site.

And how about about some additional resources:

USN Electrical Safety Guide

US Army Electrical Safety 386-26

Can you suggest any other resources, or better resources? Does anyone know of additional sources of reference and training materials? Railway Educational Bureau, others?

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 1084
Location: MA
I rember I was at certain organization that for an event had a popcorn machine out (the large kind that you see at fairs.) While the popcorn machien had a ground prong on the plug the extention cord that it was attached to diden't. It had fallen off thues leaveing the unit ungrounded. I found another cord that did have the prong and used that one and threw the defective one away in the trash. Next week I come back and the same cord I had throen away was being used again... Just because you have a railroad saftey program dosen't mean all other dangers on the property that are unrelated to the trains can be ignored.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:47 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 487
robertmacdowell wrote:
It's another of those "applicability" things which confuse the hell out of people. Right. NEC is intentionally non-applicable to electric traction. Partly because the necessity of design of electric traction flies in the face of the mentality of AC electrical power design in the USA. When you take the 440-side of delta-wired transformers, have a 6-diode bridge rectifier, and then GROUND the negative side... this will make an NEC inspector claw his eyes out because doing that is oh, so very wrong in his world. Not in ours.


Dont know anything about that particular circuit, but traction systems have a floating ground, meaning the rail has a potential with respect to earth. That situation is weird for NEC inspectors as it creates a "touch potential" hazard. Occasionally you will read about a poor pet electrocuted on a trolley track. A relay back in the substation is supposed to trip the trolley offline before that ever happens, but sometimes they don't and you get an electrocution accident.

Edit: Oh, and the frames and chassis of equipment in the modern traction substation will likely also be on the floating ground, and so the modern substation has an insulated, epoxy floor to protect the worker from becoming a path to earth between the chassis and the earth. A weird situation for the NEC-trained inspector who is not familiar with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 509
My understanding from being trained as an electrical engineer and reading the history of electricity in the US is that the NEC is a "generic code" generated by a non-governmental body (the NFPA, the "F" stands for fire).

It was first released in the 1890's and targeted at houses and general industrial buildings. It was sponsored by the insurance companies of the day as a uniform set of rules that (if followed) reduced the chance of fires caused by poor electrical installations.

The insurance companies wanted a fixed set of rules that they could compare an insured property against when deciding to offer/decline coverage.

Since the railroads that used electrical traction did not (generally) seek insurance company coverage (i.e. they were "self insured") they did not feel the need to adopt the code. Also, the electrical utility companies did not adopt the code. To this day an electric utility company makes their own rules for in plant wiring, etc. And their internal rules are likely more stringent than NEC rules.

An electrical provider can and will decline to connect you to their system if your residence/plant does not meet the code. And they WILL cut their wires into your residence/plant if they learn of serious code violations (to protect themselves from lawsuits).

Since those days many municipalities have adopted the NEC as a way to define a minimum set of rules that a home builder/re-modeller has to follow to get a "certificate of occupancy/inspection". The municipalities do this so nobody can sue them asking why; "How could you let somebody build a firetrap like that in our town ?"

There is no law enforcement agency that can knock on your door and demand to inspect your electrical wiring. You can do any dang thing you want to your wiring in your residence, plant, building and nobody is going to check up on you. BUT if something goes wrong the first thing the insurance company/OSHA/etc. will ask is was all the electrical work up to "code", if not your chances of recovering on a claim and/or avoiding a fine/lawsuit are slim.

Cheers, Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: Electrical Safety
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 777
rock island lines wrote:
Dont know anything about that particular circuit, but traction systems have a floating ground, meaning the rail has a potential with respect to earth. That situation is weird for NEC inspectors as it creates a "touch potential" hazard. Occasionally you will read about a poor pet electrocuted on a trolley track. A relay back in the substation is supposed to trip the trolley offline before that ever happens, but sometimes they don't and you get an electrocution accident.

Edit: Oh, and the frames and chassis of equipment in the modern traction substation will likely also be on the floating ground, and so the modern substation has an insulated, epoxy floor to protect the worker from becoming a path to earth between the chassis and the earth. A weird situation for the NEC-trained inspector who is not familiar with it.


I have an awful hard time believing that the frame of the vehicles and traction rails of ANY electric railway are not earth grounded. (third rail excluded, of course). The rail would have to be insulated from the ties and not touching any weeds or dirt or concrete....


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