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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4709
Location: Maine
Two statements: First, it would only have been a stupid question if it hadn't been asked. An in depth discussion was warranted.
Second, and here I am admittedly, on thin ice, isn't this one reason why the two Baldwin Sharks have been down from service?

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 257
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Crankshafts are re-claimed by welding all the time in the marine and petroleum industries. There isn't enough money in locomotive engines to justify it.

http://coastalplatinginc.com/Treatment.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 545
Location: Canada
One of the engines I had in mind when I asked the question related back to this thread
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37242, but the other engine I was thinking of was Canadian Pacific 4744, arguably the most powerful single engined Alco century ever built and now laid up with a broken crankshaft too
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 339&nseq=3
I guess theoretically Ellwood could make new crankshafts for both of them given enough cubic dollars?


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 1073
Location: Warren, PA
Heck, I'd certainly put it by them, because this is more fabrication to a drawing than specialized tooling that simply no longer exists.

I know when I was there I was surprised by the number of 'obsolete' engine cranks that were still going out like Alco 244's, etc. That was a long time ago, but they still do a LOT of crankshafts there.

I never saw any evidence in records that they did FM or Baldwin cranks, no idea how those were done or by what company.

There's another entire side of Ellwood that does crankshaft repair/reconditioning, they were in that business before they bought National Forge.
http://www.ellwoodcrankshaftgroup.com/Services.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:24 pm
Posts: 76
mjanssen wrote:
Crankshafts are re-claimed by welding all the time in the marine and petroleum industries. There isn't enough money in locomotive engines to justify it.

http://coastalplatinginc.com/Treatment.htm


Would you mind clarifying what you mean by re-claimed? From the website I gather that grinding and welding cracks, spray or weld adding metal, straightening and grinding journals to new specs is pretty common. I'd be in awe if they were repairing severed/broken ones, but I never mind learning.
It seems that in many applications it is more likely to catch a crack or problem before catastrophic failure due to rebuild practices. Marine is a good example, as rebuilding the diesel frequently involves removing from the vehicle/vessel and crankcase removal & inspection is simple and logical.
Respectfully,
Sully


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
Randy Gustafson wrote:
I never saw any evidence in records that they did FM or Baldwin cranks, no idea how those were done or by what company.


From the Baldwin magazine Third Quarter, 1944:

Image

Image

Baldwin built their own cranks from scratch.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 257
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Sully wrote:
mjanssen wrote:
Crankshafts are re-claimed by welding all the time in the marine and petroleum industries. There isn't enough money in locomotive engines to justify it.

http://coastalplatinginc.com/Treatment.htm


Would you mind clarifying what you mean by re-claimed? From the website I gather that grinding and welding cracks, spray or weld adding metal, straightening and grinding journals to new specs is pretty common. I'd be in awe if they were repairing severed/broken ones, but I never mind learning.
It seems that in many applications it is more likely to catch a crack or problem before catastrophic failure due to rebuild practices. Marine is a good example, as rebuilding the diesel frequently involves removing from the vehicle/vessel and crankcase removal & inspection is simple and logical.
Respectfully,
Sully


Typically, you loose a journal and they can build it back up with submerged arc welding at a controlled temp range and re-heat treat. These guys also build low production, huge crankshafts for OEMS who make things like industrial compressors as well as smaller stuff (locomotive size) like gas engine compressor crankshafts. It is very impressive to watch! I am sure they can replace what they can't repair.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:08 am 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 473
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
I think it was Atlas Machine and Tool in Louisville, KY that did the crankshaft reclamation work for South Louisville Shops for years and years. When I was there in the early '90s they were still doing them for railroad application as well as marine and industrial. Nice folks and good pricing as I recall.

If memory serves the only time these folks would re-claim a cracked crankshaft was if the crack was in a journal and could be ground out as a function of their normal grind and build of that journal, otherwise the piece was scrap. Now I have seen a bunch of counterweights welded back on over the years -- usually poorly.

A couple of other thoughts -- I'm not sure about roof hatches for prime mover removal unless you're on a cab unit of some kind. Generally on a road switcher or a switcher you have to remove some or all of the carbody.

ETA


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1351
Location: Chicago USA
Wasn't Precision Engineering / Precision National's original claim to fame something about crankshaft work?

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:46 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 518
Location: Illinois
filmteknik wrote:
Wasn't Precision Engineering / Precision National's original claim to fame something about crankshaft work?

Steve


I believe you may be thinking of Chrome Locomotive, previously known as Chrome Crankshaft

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid question time, locomotive crankshafts
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 1073
Location: Warren, PA
One of my favorite memories of working at Forge was going through the polishing room, where there were multiple machines turning shiny huge crankshafts in medium-speed spinning lathes unlike anything I've ever seen.

One of the attractions of steam has always been that you could 'see' it working. That could be done here as well. I've always thought that one of the best applications for a badly worn crank and prime mover in a railroad museum setting would be to cut it down so it could be displayed as a moving artifact, maybe no more than 100 rpm or so, spinning in the bearings, powered by an electric motor. Most people have never seen an automotive crank, let alone anything this big. It would be one of those memorable displays that would not be easily forgotten.

Nothing against steam, but I'll just never forget those SD45 crankshafts! I'm almost sure this shot was taken at Forge. http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y52 ... 676896.jpg


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