This thread is an offshoot of "Age of Steam roundhouse saves another engine." There should be plenty of information about S160s to start their own thread.

Andrew - Thanks for posting your list of existing locomotives. It's interesting reading. Here is some additional information -

There is also a group overhauling 1371 in the U.K. https://www.facebook.com/pages/1631-GCR ... 0833783064.

I don't have the specifics at my fingertips, but in addition to the UK locomotive that spent its service life in China, the others operated in Poland or Hungary.

USATC3523/ARR 557 doesn't have the original tender. Around 1950 the ARR replaced it with a tender from one of the USATC 0-6-0s. The tender we will operate with is also from one of the 0-6-0s. USATC 2627/ARR 556 also has a different tender than the one it used when in service. I don't know the origin of that one. USATC 1702/GSMR 1702 doesn't have its original tender. I believe both the tender and the signature off-center smoke box door were both replaced while operating on the Reader Railroad. I have read that its original tender still exists, I believe in Corpus Christi Texas.

Dinwittty - At 80 tons, they aren't particularly large 2-8-0s. I have access to the 16-page BLW specifications for USATC 2379 through 2382 (ARR 551 through 554) which BLW configured for use on the ARR, over 800 drawings, and some of the engineering notes and meeting minutes prepared during design. What do you need to know?

The Alaska Railroad purchased ARR 551 through 557 new through USATC and all six were modified by Baldwin with bell, knuckle couplers, electrical system, pilot, air powered firebox opener, and power reverse for use in Alaska. The ARR later received another six as war surplus. 557 was the last new steam locomotive acquired by the ARR and was delivered on November 2, 1944. For some reason payment wasn't made until November 2 1945 and the records say the payment was made by the ARR to the Fort Richardson army installation near Anchorage.

In addition to the USATC Consolidations that operated on Ft. Eustis, according to an April 3, 2015 post by elueck and information on John's ARR page, the three USATC Consolidations from Camp Claiborne were USATC 1600, 3409, and 3410. These were later acquired by the ARR and were numbered 562, 561, and 560, respectively. 3410/560 went to Spain in 1958 as part of a sale of 14 steam locomotives of four types, 51,000 pounds of parts, and 180 pounds of blueprints being disposed of after the railroad had converted to diesels. After that group left, 557 was the only remaining steam locomotive. 562 was scrapped by the ARR and the cylinder block sat in a scrap yard for many years. I have a photo somewhere that I took about 20-25 years ago of the cylinder block in a gondola full of scrap waiting to head south.

1702 may be the only USATC Consolidation that made its way to a non-government railroad in the U.S. (The ARR was Federally owned when the locomotives were acquired.) Its low USATC number suggests that it operated somewhere for the military and was obtained as war surplus, but I don't think I have ever seen anything saying where it operated. The Broadbelt collection has a number of photos of 1702 at the Baldwin plant and I have a copy of a November 5, 1942 newspaper photo of 1702 ("Iron dough Boy in Battle Dress") with one of the BLW photos which apparently came from a press release. It shows Major J.W. Marsh, who is credited with the locomotive design, and a couple of other Army officers.

(5/28/15 Reread the ARR letter and edited above to correct that payment was made to Ft. Richardson, not by Ft. Richardson.)

Here are a couple of the S160s operating in the UK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K80xeChTfuE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuYxThcW7CQ

I'd compare their size to Southern 630: not a little teakettle, but not as big as WMSR 734. Very interesting engines to look at. It looks like they did everything they could do to make a big engine fit in the British loading gauge.

If we can believe what Wikipedia says today about Southern 630, this how it compares to the USATC Consolidations -

Engine Weight: 214,000 vs 162,500
Weight on drivers: 192,000 vs 141,000
Boiler pressure: 190 vs 225
tractive effort: 46,700 vs 31,500
Driver size: both 57"

Dick -

Here is a photo from the Don Ross collection of #1702 when she was in service in 1952 on the Warren & Saline River Railroad:

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0605/wsr1702.jpg

Although it's a bit hard to tell for sure, it appears that the off-center smoke box door had been replaced by that time. Certainly, the headlight has been moved down and mounted in the center of the smoke box, so logic would indicate that the door was replaced at that time. Curious as to why it was done. W&SR was involved in moving freight and an "esthetic" look was probably not the reason. Perhaps a front end accident? Anyhow, she later came to the Reader with the centered headlight. As for the tender, I believe that the Reader put a tender off of the Kansas City Southern behind the S160, but I don't ever recall reading from what KCS locomotive it came off of.


Les

Surviving world wide USATC S-160 steam locomotives:

England = 8
Poland = 3
Hungry = 3
Turkey = 2
United States = 8
Greece = 7 +/-
Italy = 1
China = 1

Supposedly, there are still very many examples of these locomotives in Greece, all in varying states of decay and neglect. The "7" stated above are the only ones I have been able to confirm, as there probably are others. If there are any locomotives that I missed or provided incorrect information for, please let me know so that I can update the roster!

The USATC's, S-160 class locomotives truly are a fascinating breed, as they are perhaps the only type of locomotive to serve world wide. I can imagine that this thread could go on for many pages with intelligent conversation. Its almost hard for me to imagine that at one point, well over 2,000 of these war horses were in operation.

-Andrew

1702's tender is off of a Rock Island 2-8-2.

That sounds pretty much correct. One has to remember that the USATC locomotives had to be capable of going anywhere. That's why some of the locomotives had cabs built for European clearances and being lighter weight was better than being heavier.

When I was at TVRM, we ran the 610 (USATC Class A 2-8-0). There were days that she couldn't start a three coach train and actually required a push from behind to get started-specifically if we were running base leg first, had a full load and had pulled up to permit a second train to draw up on the platform behind us (usually the Downtown Arrow). On those days, standard practice was to couple the two trains together without connecting the air and have the second train give the first a shove. Once moving at the appropriate speed, the brakeman on the second train would pull the pin. Going up the hill from the East Chattanooga Belt Line to the TVRM main could also be interesting if we had any train to speak of and slick rail.

Thanks for the correction. Wish they had saved the "other end" of that locomotive though. The Rock Island 2-8-2's were good looking engines.

Les

that is what I'm looking for, USATC I presume the 2nd number in your compare.

80 tons calculates to 40,000 lbs tractive effort based on 1/4 weight usually transfers to TE, so thats a reasonable guesstimate pre-knowing the real stat. Part of its weight is on the pilot truck. Its looks reminded me of my model union/DM&IR 0-10-2. BTW, missing the front pilot wheel even on the model precludes...run it slow speed!

Its a late build for 2-8-0 engines and small engines as they seem to be a little more stocky than your earlier build versions, like B&OCT having 2-6-0's which are late builds and the stockiest small engines ever.

On 1702 - I read somewhere, possibly in the book on the Possum Trot line, that the replacement smoke box front was an esthetic decision. It also looks like the smoke box mounted air compressor had been replaced by a cross compound pump in the linked photo. ARR also replaced air compressors shortly after putting their locomotives in service. They likely installed the headlight there rather than moved it because it didn't carry one when built. I'm attaching the photo from the Adrian (Michigan) Daily Telegram, November 5, 1942 showing it with kerosene headlamp. There is a better copy of the same photo in the Broadbelt collection.
According to the BLW specifications the 31,500 pounds of tractive power was at .85 working pressure and 4.4 ratio of adhesion.

The standard gauge examples as well as the 60 5' 6" gauge Indian locomotives had the same width cab with an exterior dimension of 8' 8-1/2". The ARR, modified about half (but not 557) of the cabs by somewhere between two and three feet.

Also attached is an interesting comparison between several of the Ft. Eustis locomotives a newsletter from the Susquehanna chapter of the NMRA. All five of the locomotives still exist.

Dick, Thanks for the information on the S-160s and the lead on the movement of the three engines from Camp Claiborne to the Alaska Railroad. For the record, the last recorded movements of the these engines on the Claiborne and Polk was as follows.

3410 eastbound, Camp Polk to Camp Claiborne, July 15, 1945

3409 Round trip, Camp Claiborne to Camp Polk and return, July 21, 1945

1600 westbound, Camp Claiborne to Camp Polk.

These are all from the 1945 train sheets and train orders.

Here is shot of the S-160 spec sheet from the MRS folio as well.

Here are several pictures of what appears to be the 1600 at Camp Claiborne in 1942. The locations are certainly at Camp Claiborne. I wish that they were better quality, but you use what you can find.

Here are the last images that I have of the 1600 at Camp Claiborne

I believe there are 6 complete locos currently resident in the UK, namely USATC numbers 1631, 2253, 3278, 5197, 5820 & 6046.
2253 is on loan to the National Railway Museum by its owner (North Yorkshire Moors Rly), rather than owned by the NRM. It is currently on display at the NRMs annexe in Shildon, County Durham, rather than the York HQ.
Number 2628 in your list would appear from its location to be in Maryland, not the UK as shown!

A couple of incomplete examples - USATC Nos 2138 & 2364 - both ex MAV (Hungary) are owned by the Ruddington (GCR) group as spares sources for the loco they are restoring (1631)