That was back in the 1960's, when it was still an active L&N locomotive and before Amtrak, when L&N still ran it's own passenger trains.

All,

Thanks for the input and constructive criticism. I will attempt to answer as much as I can in this post.

First off, let me start by saying that we are not happy with the current state of 770 and 665. We have failed as a museum in letting these two pieces get into such a deteriorated state. One of the biggest missed opportunities for us was not allowing the Bowling Green Railpark Group to have that engine and restore it for display. I was not on the board at the time, but I understand to some degree the reluctance to let it get away given that they had no track record of restoration at the time.

We are definitely open to letting equipment go to a better home, or working with a group of people who have interest in a particular piece of rolling stock. I offer up the recent sale of the 0-6-0 Porter to Preston McEvoy as evidence of this, as well as the sale of the Pearl River to a member.

If anyone has an idea for a piece of equipment we have that fits their collection, we are open to sell, trade, lease, lend, whatever. One big hurdle to overcome is that our connection to the outside world is CSX, which means anything that doesn't have rotating endcap bearings (and that includes about 98% of the rolling stock we have) has to leave by truck or special flatcar. You just have to show us that there is an appropriate plan to restore, display and interpret the piece once you get it. The board meets at Publisher's Printing in Lebanon Junction, KY at 7:30 pm on the 4th Thursday of the month. Meetings are open and all are welcome to attend. Proposals can be sent to the museum at kyrail@bardstown.com attn: Greg Mathews.

Our revenue stream consists of regular excursion tickets, gift shop sales, special events and associated merchandise sales, car storage, donations, and public (TEA) and private grants. For the last few years, car storage has been a good source, but one that we cannot depend on long term. We have been down on car storage this year, but recently got a contract that will keep us mostly full for the balance of the year. We have the ability to store 300-400 cars without impacting normal excursion operations.

That brings us to the one major thing that most people discount or ignore altogether when talking about us. We maintain 17 miles of track and several bridges. It costs us a ton of money to do so. We are constantly replacing ties, tamping, and doing bridge work. At the end of the day, we have a railroad good for 25 mph in most places.

Lots of work lately on motive power. GP-7 411, although not the real McCoy, interprets the L&N transition era in Kentucky. We are even working on possibly deleting the dynamic brake blisters so it is more historically accurate for an L&N GP-7. The Monon BL-2 has had replacement draft gear applied so it can be used again. It recently swallowed some piston rings and had to have a power assembly replaced. The Monon RR terminated in Louisville, so again, keeping this engine running fits the mission.

With respect to the CF-7, (and this is my own personal opinion and I am not speaking for the board or membership), it doesn't fit the mission statement and should be sold or traded for something more historically appropriate. Having said that, it is a good runner that had recent electrical and wheel work done, and we're not going to get rid of it unless it's for something in comparable cosmetic and mechanical shape. Please let us know if you have a second generation GP in good condition that traces back to SR, B&O, C&O, IC, TC, K&IT or any other Kentucky class 1 or shortline RR and really want to have a nice Santa Fe warbonnet.

That's all for tonight. I'll talk about upcoming projects and priorities in the next post.

Rob Minton
KRM

Rob,

It's good to hear some common sense about what needs done at KRM. I volunteered there in the late 90's. I've been a professional railroad since. I've made a few pilgrimages to KRM and BGRM through the years. The museum always had good folks around wanting to make something of it. It always seems the board was this mystical group who didn't want to do any of the things you just mentioned. I'm glad to see you looking to build and move forward with KRM.

Joe

The 770 was gutted of all internals by the L&N, which used the prime movers, main generators, air compressors and electrical components to repower older Alco switchers. There is a 12 cylinder block sitting in the 770, but it is a junk block, put in by the L&N to give the shell some weight.

At best a cosmetic restoration and stabalization of the carbody would be great.

Also, I don't know what you have against run arounds. They don't eat up that much time, and KRM's run is long enough, whatever time you "save" you can't wedge any more trains into the schedule. Most museum and tourist railroad operations are not as schedule intensive as the LIRR was/is.

Why did the museum get over $600,000.00 in debt? What management changes and policy changes were made to make sure that a large debt load would no longer endanger the museum?

What is the time frame to pay off the debt?

As part of the refinancing of the debt into a secured note, Town & Country Bank of Bardstown, KY took a UCC1 filing on all of KRM's assets. This presumably includes donation money. Are potential donors alerted to the fact that their potentially donor-restricted money is subject to the security agreement?

Finally, if there are only 5-7 shop volunteers, and a limited number of operations volunteers, has the museum considered really trimming the size of the collection down to something more sustainably manageable?

Interesting and certainly valuable things to consider. Do you try to determine an optimum size and shrink to it, knowing you will end up stronger and smaller, or do you go big and for broke and cross your fingers and hope? And, It's not just collections, but entire operating strategy.

5 to 7 shop volunteers isn't enough to do a reasonable job of maintaining operating stock much less carrying out additional projects, unless they are all there full time, and operating schedules are train weights and mileage and wear are pretty limited. Track maintenance for a long line....... that's really resource intensive.

Car storage is a great way to generate some income from the track albatross, until the storage track needs a lot of repair.

I think some good thought is being done along some good trajectories - hope it all works out for the best.

I'd imagine some of the debt was from storm damage or flooding. That, and track maintenance.

As for 152, it does draw folks in. If it were paid for by the state or another outside group and had a zero cost for restoration, I'd be all for it. Hell, the door could be opened at any time for money to be brought in by CSX or NS as soon as it helps them with their public image or relations. CSX may at some point be looking for an ambassador to show their heritage as many other roads have done. If I were in charge, I'd stuff and mount the 152 until it was paid for rather than trying to get operating funds to be used to restore an engine with not nearly enough rate of return for the investment.

There are a few things that I would do pretty quickly to try and stabilize the museum and the infrastructure:

Any and all equipment that did not meet the mission to preserve kentucky heritage would be gone. Not a single dollar would be spent to work on or maintain the equipment UNLESS it was to keep it qualified to be traded or sold. Period.

I would work to find a new operating base to work from. I'd look at dinner trains or date night trains. I would look to find other ways to generate revenue with the equipment. I'd be contacting movie production companies, perservation groups, reinactment groups, etc and putting out there that we are available for rent.

I'd work to get a more secure storage location and try to find revenue for more pole barns. IRM has been extremely successful in keeping their equipment intact by covering it. 770 would theoretically be in a better place if it had been covered for all the years.

I'd be looking to sell or lease the 2716 to someone who could actually preserve it and potentially run it. Fort Wayne, Age of steam, the group in Cleveland starting up, etc. It's sitting and rusting. I don't know if there is a lube program going on at KRM to try and keep it in shape for eventual restoration or not. But if there is not a preservation and maintenance schedule, it needs to be sent to where it can be covered and will be loved.

My thoughts go on. I'd be working to do a lot of little things that hopefully wouldn't cost much other than time, to move the museum forward.

Joe

All,

What Rob said is probably one of the most honest things I've seen about the museum in a while. I can definitely see the point in only giving up 2546 if it's for at least an equal trade. Even though it doesn't seem to fit the mission statement I guess it does give the museum some variety. It'll probably be addressed in Rob's next post on restoration projects (which is good since he knows a lot more about them then I would) but are there going to be any plans to restore 770 maybe cosmetically if not eventually to operation? It'd be a lot of money but it'd be sweet to see a real L&N passenger unit restored. Someone mentioned something about 2716; I've always been hopeful that since NS restarted its steam program that maybe they'd lease it again and operate it. That would create more money for the museum as well. I still hope the museum will have a bright future, which I think it ultimately will. I know acquiring 309 (or at least the rumor of it before anyone knew if it was true) attracted a few rail fans from I think it was Ohio to the museum to see for themselves.

Well, back again. I probably still won't hit all the questions, but I'll try to take another bite of the elephant.

By listing the names of the board members in the original post, I hoped to break down the "mythical" board image that we have somehow perpetuated over the years. We are just regular guys trying our best to do a lot with few resources. You probably see our names on message boards like this, Facebook, and out riding and chasing excursions like the rest of you. Call us or e-mail us at kyrail@bardstown.com and the office will forward your note to us.

Candidly, I can't enumerate the collective decisions that led to the amount of debt that we have. I wasn't part of the board until a year and a half ago. I believe some of it was from the original purchase of the line back in the early 90's that still had not been retired. Some cars were purchased that added seating capacity and dinner train capability. The debt is just something that we have to deal with. I can tell you that the debt is now structured to be completely retired in 9 years.

David, in response to your questions on UCC filings, and statements to donors, we don't do anything like that. I guess you have to trust that we're going to try our best to put the money to good use. If there's any question that is not the case, you shouldn't give.

I do believe that we ought to derive the majority of our income from passenger operations, and to do that you have to keep locomotives running, coaches in good repair, and trackwork up to par. If something breaks, you fix it if possible. The thinking was that if we use non-significant assets to do the work day in and day out, you don't wear out the historic fabric of your important pieces. Unfortunately in our case, you end up with a mismatched trainset that has little to nothing to do with preserving and interpreting the history of Kentucky railroading, and you also end up spending most of your money and time keeping that trainset running.

I think we have done a credible job converting the GP-7 to an historically accurate paint scheme, even if the engine isn't really L&N. Look for much blue paint to be applied to the rest of the car fleet over the next couple of years and the real L&N coaches will be restored and used in the trainset again.

I still didn't make it to upcoming projects and timelines but I'll try to put something together over the next couple of days. I'll be at the museum on Saturday, so maybe I can provide some pictures as well.

Rob Minton
KRM

Operating expenses should be covered through earned revenues, which means you need to balance your earnings with your costs - what can you control on either side to make that work out? Capital expenses should be covered through development related funds - grants, donations, etc. You've mentioned some success in this arena already, great - you can reduce the number of active priorities to reflect your grants and donations ability to pay for ongoing work. This leaves the debt service, which is the rock sitting on your chest crushing you at every breath. If car storage fees are stable and can cover it, earmark them for no other purpose until it is gone. Otherwise....... well, you've made some progress already. You have something working for you.

The danger of relying too much on running trains to make money is they cost time, effort and considerable money to keep running and keep filled, and you end up spending all your time and effort keeping trains running instead of running the business. I'm up against that in other places...... it's seductive and destructive in the long run. Best of luck.

I never did understand the rationale behind the dinner train idea. Yes, R.J. Corman's dinner train operates very nearby, but it's success did not mean there was demand for another one.

For those of you who are warning KRM about not relying so heavily on passenger train revenue, my question is, do you have another suggestion for creating a perpetuating and attractive revenue stream?

NS' new steam model is to not restore the locomotives themselves, but to contract out with other organizations who have restored engines, then use them. It's a better set up in a lot of ways - it allows TVRM, FWRHS and VMT to showcase their preservation efforts and for NS, it takes the hassle out of maintaining a costly and idiosyncratic steam fleet. What's more, 2716's only heritage with NS is that it was run as a "Southern" locomotive during the Southern steam program - albeit only for a few months. Being of C&O heritage, it would probably be far down the list of vintage power that NS would have an interest in putting money into.



2716 Has been under cover most of its time since being delivered back to KRM from Ft. Wayne. While of course it is rusting (it is made of metal, after all), it's not being neglected.

Fort Wayne has plenty of engine for their own uses, and have already spent time with the 2716 in previous years. When its flue time ran out, they opted to fully restore their own locomotive rather than put cash into restore one they were leasing. FWRHS has their own time machine - no need for a very similar engine right now.

As for the Midwest Railroad Preservation Society, they've got the 4070 on their hands, and are slowly making progress, though they would have no need to tear down another locomotive to have it re-built....4070 is project enough for them. And, they have enough to do with contract work that they're doing in their facility to keep the lights on.

Then you're mentioning the American Steam Railroad Preservation Society. They just got 2100 going.

Sure, you rely on it - to the extent that it is reliable. You also work on he products you offer in passenger train service to attract the greatest number of paying customers for the least expenditure of resources, and overhaul your operating and staffing procedures so that you can do the most with the least. Do you run trains that run at 10MPH for two hours and cost $25? Would you do better to raise your track speed to 15MPH, reduce the run length and run trains every hour for $15 and attract more of the short attention span / impulse buying public? How about the consist? Heavyweights cost more to run and have the highest drag and wear on your power for fewer seats to hold butts. Brand- is your train mixed dogs breakfast of stuff or is there a visual and historic theme that makes it all work together and tells a story?

If you want to rely on passenger revenue, there's a lot you can do to make a good job of it.

All railroad preservations groups draw revenue from one of three places: Donations, grants (gov type funding), and operating income. The issue with many museums, not only KRM, is location, location, location.

KRM is pretty far out from Louisville. Their line IS close to a HWY, I-65. The town they are close to doesn't draw many folks. The other HWY they are close to is the Bluegrass Parkway.

As for operating plan, a train ride is merely a train ride. Finding a way to display the equipment to be preserved has been an issue at KRM for a long time. The storage is east (railroad south) of town. There isn't easy access to the equipment for people to view. Having the equipment be part of a trip, similar to TVRM or IRM would help give the museum a purpose other than operations. The station is just on the east (railroad north) side of the yard area and doesn't lend itself for looking at the stuff. The station is nice as was the model railroad display.

As for sending the 2716 elsewhere. My idea was revenue to cancel the remaining debt. Other groups may have revenue and more suitable storage area for the engine while giving the museum a much needed boost.

The train ops being the only way they are reliably bringing in cash, I understand having good equipment to run. It costs money to maintain cars as everyone here knows. The issue for me is, which cars do you try to keep up? MKT? SP? L&N? IC? Sou, etc? I would think spending money that suits the museum mission aside from operations should be a primary concern. After all, SP never ran to Ky. Nor did the Santa Fe. Yes, they may be good cars and equipment. They don't support the mission other than helping to bring revenue by running trains. Could that be done utilitizing Kentucky heritage cars and engines? I think so.

I think Rob is probably one of the first folks from KRM with forward thinking ideas to go public. One thing of concern was the publishing of the museum donations. That's something that most certainly needs to be addressed for folks to send money to them.

Joe