Following up on the parts issues raised earlier in the discussion, many of the questions that come up nowadays on parts for early GP and SW locomotives, and also on F-units and E-units, involve finding replacements for outdated electrical transmission and control system components. The question of control component availability is made more complicated by the many control system modernization recommendations that EMD issued over the years, some of which were applied across the fleet on some railroads, and applied inconsistently or not at all on other railroads. Since the electrical schematics may or may not have been modified to reflect the changes, and in many cases the schematics did not follow units to their new owners, it is sometimes very challenging to find details on every electrical system modification that was made. And when you do find the information you need, you may be faced with adapting a more modern component that has a suitable configuration to function as a replacement part.

PC

As is the case with many folks, you misunderstand what "historic fabric" and "origninal fabric" means. It does not necessarily mean "as built" or "from the factory". It means the condition of the artifact at the conclusion of its period of historical significance (the time period that defines its importance as an artifact.) The Pennsy locomotives that remain unused since being in service with the Pennsy contain many clues about how the Pennsy worked and how they maintained their locomotives, including the many modifications an rebuilds. The more an artifact is used, modified and updated after that period, the more of those clues are lost forever.

A case can be made for the two steamers leased from the museum that most such clues that could be lost were already lost. However it seems the RRMoP drew a line and the work needed was over that line. The case for the other unused locomotives is stronger, but some has been lost even during things like asbestos abatement and cosmetic restorations. Still, the loss is much less that what would be needed to make the operational.

I agree entirely that a live locomotive tells the story much more thoroughly and effectively than a preserved one, though there is merit to preserving the details of how they left service. Additionally we all know deep down it is entirely impractical to expect all historic locomotives or even an large percentage of them to operate. So it behooves us to do the best job we can to preserve the "originality" of those that cannot or should not run.

Hi,



In honest response, I've never heard the trems I used with a definitive explination as to meaning.

Two points in case, the "General" and the "Texas" from the Civil War (or maybe the not so recent urban reviltalisation in 1864 since I live in the Mtro-Atlanta Area <GRIN>), are frequently advertised as items to visit od Civil War historic artifacts. The mis-leading assumption of them looking like they did during Andrew's Raid is not played down and so I always assumed that the artifact they were misrepresenting was looking as it did during the civil war.

That said, static diplay is not bad - in fact the RRMUofP's concrete pit that allows you to walk under a PRR H6sb 2-8-0 (if I remember right and the dirplay has not changed) is to be commended as one of the best ways to show off a loco. Being able to see what is normally hidden.

My own response is what I go by to dicide what is best. I had family hire on for the PRR (13 members from about 1910 to February1 1968 ). I have been down to Strasburg countless times. I ride the Strasburg RR almost every time I visit. I've been to the RRMofP about 5 times in the same 45-odd years (I do not really recall before I was about 15 c1970). For me it is the experience.

I have ridden Southern Steam specails, D&RGW remnants, Sierra Railroad and many other famous operating lines or not so famous such as the Middletown and Hummelstown. I have not gone to see either the General or Texas (both withing an hour's drive from my house) in 15 years or so because they just stand there.

I had not really thought of the angle of looking at the patches and rework and the stories they might tell about a loco. That is a very enlightening point. My coomment there is that usually the locos are behind fences or ropes or other items that does not allow one who is interested in the history or technology as well as railroads to study farther. Most displays are written for the lowest common denominator of visitor's understanding of railroading.

To try to tie this back to RPN type topics, maybe announcing a guided tour of the museum where a higher level of railroading and/or mechanical engineering is the common denominator would be a way to draw in people who want more details into the how and why details.

Thanks for helping me understand a little better.

Doug vV

Back on topic and relatable I might ask is the #764 "passenger" equipped for service. If so I can very see the idea of Strasburg operating steam heated excursions come this year's winter. It's good and all to have something for freight business even if short term but shouldn't they have a diesel capable of both duties. I imagine it would cut down on costs for having multiple steamers operating at once and well fit in to the roster. Just an idea,

Cameron

Cameron,
Ask yourself what the Strasburg sells and then ask yourself why anyone would want to buy that product from the Strasburg instead of from someone else. Now ask yourself if running the regular schedule with a comparatively modern Diesel will result in a higher net revenue or a lower net revenue.

GME

I don't think steam heat, from a steam locomotive, or a steam generator equipped Geep, would do any good on the Strasburg. They don't have steam lines on their coaches, or the necessary heater coils. All of their coaches, with the exception of the open cars, are equipped with some sort of coal stove, or a Baker heater. In fact, SRRC has the patterns and can build very nice new coal stoves. They offer them for sale and are shown on their website.

The Geep was leased to cover for the SW-8 while it is out for some wheel work. The SW-8 is normally used for switching and for freight service, when a steam locomotive is not fired up and available. There is no 1472 day clock attached to a diesel.

My wife and I rode on the Strasburg back in 2003 with several inches of snow on the ground. Our car had a coal stove that was putting out the heat as we chugged along through the beautiful winter countryside.

There is no firm definition of what constitutes "Passenger Equipped". Depending on the road and the need it could mean higher speed gearing, a particular air brake schedule, provision for train heat and/or light, different paint. or even a different coupler.

A GE 70tonner could be considered a passenger engine on the B&ML, St. Johnsbury, Southern Pacific, or the PGE. A 44tonner on the PRR. Look at some of what the Rock Island used. PRR and the PRSL used conventional switchers on some trains as did the B&O. I could go on ad infinitum about short lines.

Pretending for a moment that Kelly and his cohorts have gone completely daft and decide to use 764 as regular passenger power - What modifications do you think might be needed to designate it as 'passenger equipped'? I will postulate that merely coupling it to a rake of coaches, placing live people inside and moving said coaches qualifies it as 'passenger power'.

GME

I happened to be witness, sometime in the 1980s, to one of the only times I ever heard of when one of the steamers (I think it was 90) came up lame, limped back into East Strasburg, and 44-tommer 33, still in Strasburg RR attire at that point, took over the slot in the schedule. I know I have a slide I took of 33 and train passing the 90(?) sitting outside the enginehouse with crew attending to brakes, rods, or whatever, and I sent it in to one of the rail magazines for possible use, but it was returned.......

The Baltimore Chapter NRHS pulled off possible the only charter of PRR 9331 at Strasburg, on a mixed train, before it was sold to the Walkersville Southern.......

I mean't Trainlawyer that the #764 was genny equipped and had the piping to allow steam heated excursions. According to the official history of the unit it served as a "passenger" unit for Amtrak so I figured it might sport a 4625 in the short hood. However seeing that EDM has said that their cars no longer retain their steam lines I guess it wouldn't be worth the cost anyway.

Cameron,
Would you please look at the quote from Brother Moxley below and highlight where it says anything even similar to:
Perhaps Brother Anderson can clarify this but I believe few if any of the Strasburg's coaches ever even had steam lines to retain.

I do recall that in the early days the only power was a twenty-ton Plymouth, Number 1. It barely has room for a cab heater let alone the capability of heating a coach or a string of them.

As an addendum to what I said earlier about how one defines 'passenger equipped', I believe the C&O had a group of U-25Bs intended for fast freight service some of which were equipped with a remote alarm for those rare occasions when they were used in passenger service with a troop sleeper which had been converted to a steam generator car.

GME

I rode a regular passenger train behind SRRC 33 once, for just a bit. One of the run around switches at East Strasburg was being renewed, and coming past the enginehouse on the return trip, the steam engine (I forget which one-) was cut off and the 33 pulled the train into the station. That was the only time I ever rode behind a diesel at Strasburg. I had thought a few times about getting together with a bunch of other old diesel guys and asking Strasburg about a charter, one coach and 33, but it's too late now-

To put my feelings on short diesel fantrips in another light though let me digress with this story. Some years ago, I took my oldest son to ride at Blue Mountain and Reading behind 2102. We both enjoyed the ride so much that we went back the next year. Instead of the T-1, the RDG GP-30 was pulling the train. I wasn't going to pay good money (then) to ride behind a diesel. So I got out a map (this was pre-GPS and internet days) and figured out how to get to Strasburg from Hamburg.

Now, in 2016, I'm actually planning on two trips to Western Maryland Scenic. First, to ride behind one of the GP-30s earlier in the season, and later to ride behind steam when the C&O engine goes into service. And I don't plan on sitting down for more than a few minutes; Dutch door or Man 'o War. Have to keep my record intact!!

I agree that it might be interesting to have 764 pull a train once in awhile, but again, as COL Edwards points out, the product at Strasburg is steam. Having a diesel at the point may turn customers away, just as that RDG Geep turned me away from riding BM&R that second time, years ago.

.

Simple. Because it's an event. Something new and different. It's like with the Durango and Silverton or Cumbres and Toltec. I remember seeing photos once of their diesel engine having to double-head with one of the steamers (I forget which of the two railroads it was) because the other steamers were down that day. It's such a rare thing, to actually have a diesel helping to pull those passenger trains, who wouldn't want to be there to document that event?

It's less of a "ho hum, Strasburg's running steam again" - and more of a "wow, did you hear about that one trip where the diesel had to pull the trains at Strasburg?" At lot of railroads these days, steam is an event, and diesel is the norm. It says something about Strasburg where the diesel is the event. :)

I was surprised when, one day while at the Railroad Museum of PA, I heard what sounded like a tractor trailer across the street.

Turns out, Strasburg was running #1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyzqYHy-gWs