william.herbert@gsa.gov

That would be the movement of Longstreet from Lee's Army to Bragg's that had his Corps arriving at Chickamauga just in time to turn the tide of battle. They had to go the long way around and change gauge several times.



Electric City Trolley Museum Association

I think this photo may be what Bill was trying to post. It's the V&T Virginia and Tennesee Loco "Roanoke" from the web page: http://www.lynchburgonline.com/history.html


ddg14@attbi.com

Here's a link to NPS describing Longstreet's movement from Virginia to Tennessee.
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_bo ... /hh25e.htm

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

I have not had the chance to see the movie as of yet. Towards the mid-point of the war and later on, removal of rail equipment from one railroad to another was quite common as necessitated by military action and war materials transportation.

In 1863, Western and Atlantic Railroad locomotives, freight cars and train crews were operating in Virginia, hauling salt which eventually made its way back to Georgia. During the later part of the war, the East Tennessee and Georgia Railroad moved its equipment to Georgia to prevent its capture by U. S. Army units. While on foreign rails in Georgia, the equipment was pressed into service. Much of this information was brought to light by writers such as Robert Black and Nimrod Bell. Basically, in the later stages of the war I would not be surprised if some locomotives and cars belonging to roads such as the V&T (Virginia and Tennessee) did find their way to other lines either through efforts of the management to keep the equipment from being captured or the rare order of the Confederate government, seizing the equipment of railroads deemed "nonessential."

awalker2002@comcast.net

I should have also mentioned above that the movie makers who are too lazy, ignorant, biased or cheap to attempt to make their representations of historic events as representative of the facts as possible also have some serious shortcomings where Civil War movies are concerned. One fact that I have never seen brought to light in a mainstream Civil War movie is that except for South Carolina, all of the states in rebellion also provided men to the United States Army. Also, there was a great deal of resistance by Unionists or Lincolnites, much of this activity being orgranized quite well. The best example is of the bridge burnings in East Tennessee and northwest Georgia on November 8th, 1861. Several railroad bridges on the East Tennessee and Virginia, East Tennessee and Georgia and Western and Atlantic lines were burned on the same night by Unionists who were in collaboration with U. S. Army officers who were coordinating a two prong attack of Confederate bases in Eastern Tennessee. Except for the Andrews Raid, none of this has ever appeared in a Civil War movie.

awalker2002@comcast.net

> I should have also mentioned above that the
> movie makers who are too lazy, ignorant,
> biased or cheap to attempt to make their
> representations of historic events as
> representative of the facts as possible also
> have some serious shortcomings where Civil
> War movies are concerned. One fact that I
> have never seen brought to light in a
> mainstream Civil War movie is that except
> for South Carolina, all of the states in
> rebellion also provided men to the United
> States Army. Also, there was a great deal of
> resistance by Unionists or Lincolnites, much
> of this activity being orgranized quite
> well. The best example is of the bridge
> burnings in East Tennessee and northwest
> Georgia on November 8th, 1861. Several
> railroad bridges on the East Tennessee and
> Virginia, East Tennessee and Georgia and
> Western and Atlantic lines were burned on
> the same night by Unionists who were in
> collaboration with U. S. Army officers who
> were coordinating a two prong attack of
> Confederate bases in Eastern Tennessee.
> Except for the Andrews Raid, none of this
> has ever appeared in a Civil War movie.

The grey areas of neither the Revolutionary nor the (un)Civil war have not had much exposure. The true misery suffered by civilians on both sides in both wars due to the non-military factions does not have the gory glory of cannons and brass.

lamontdc@adelphia.net

> The grey areas of neither the Revolutionary
> nor the (un)Civil war have not had much
> exposure. The true misery suffered by
> civilians on both sides in both wars due to
> the non-military factions does not have the
> gory glory of cannons and brass.

Offhand, I can think of at least one counter-example, and there must be others: "The Outlaw Josey Wales". Of course, Clint Eastwood doesn't just get mad, he gets even.

We're getting way off topic here, though. It's probably Dennis' fault.

I wondered about that. I had suspected it was William Mason as the two yellow cars looked mighty familiar from other recent photographs, but the V&T lettering had me thinking it might have been Inyo. Actually, I basically liked the movie, but I'm not that familiar with the particulars of the War Between the States. I did find the thumping of the brake compressor while the locomotive was sitting still a pretty dead giveaway that wew weren't really in 1862, but who else is going to notice a steam locomotive sound and call them on a contiuity error. I can't think of any actual Ante Bellum locos that would have fit the shots anyway. Sorry to hear it was a bad experience, but I've heard very few people relate good experiences working with Hollywood.

Sincerely,
David Ackerman


david_ackerman@yahoo.com

Is that a Dutch Wagon, or am I mewrely being deceived by the outside frames and gallery style running boards?


david_ackerman@yahoo.com

Please forgive my ignorance, but what's a Dutch Wagon?

Boyd

ddg14@attbi.com

Sorry, it's a nickname for a style of U.S. common to New England. A typical "Dutch Wagon" as I understnad the term would have the cyliders and main rods inside the wheelbase, and inside connected (i.e. they drive a crank axle.) The drivers themselves would be outside coupled, and the frame would outside the whole mess, with a fairly spacious gallery all the way around, much like a modern diesel. (If I understand the setup right, that is.) I can't say as I've carefully examined where the frame is on Daniel Nason, but I'm lead to understand that she's a fairly typical example. (Boston and Providence shops, c. 1863, if I recall correctly.) She does indeed have inside connected cylinders, and a spacious gallery. I believe they were so called because of their apparent simplicity.

Sincerely,
David Ackerman

Daniel Nason at MOT
david_ackerman@yahoo.com