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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 343
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Replication/new build. It is being contemplated, along with one/maybe two other examples, as a possible new build for our group. The examples being chosen are small locomotives so the construction of the new locomotive will be relatively simpler than a modern and large locomotive. The likeliness of the project occurring depends on how much information and how many drawings can be collected/found. The interest and idea with the project is that the new shop building we are designing for handling steam locomotive restoration will have the abilities to machine nearly all of the components for a small locomotive. Even if the project never fully moves forward, having proof that the idea is possible with examples is a huge selling point for fundraising of the new shop.

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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3971
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Quote:
So after a quick search through the DeGolyer library online material, I managed to find this about the locomotive.

In volume 21 on page 11 of the Baldwin Locomotive Specifications book this information was present

Engine
Class: 4-18C
No.: 52
Purchaser: Sydfyenske Jernbaner
Page: 285

So am I to assume drawings for this locomotive would have an identification number of 4-18C and that 52 means its the 52nd locomotive built to these plans? Also, what does it mean by page 285?


Quote:
Yes, 4-18 C would be the Baldwin class number, which is to say the basic model of locomotive, and 52 means the 52nd engine built to that design. As Dave has noted above, this was a stock industrial locomotive, so there were a lot of them (meaning 52 was early in the series). . . .

P. S.: The class number would actually seem to imply an 0-4-0 rather than an 0-4-2. ("4" means four wheels total, and "C" means two sets of drive wheels; and "18" is Baldwin's cryptic way of indicating a cylinder diameter of 12 inches.) Is it possible this engine was built as an 0-4-0 and had the back truck added later in Denmark?


Maybe it is 4-18C,and maybe it isn't. As noted, the first photograph looks like something from Baldwin. I very much doubt this engine would have been shipped back to Philadelphia for its trailing truck, and the rear overhang looks awfully long not to require one.

I'm of the opinion that the page we have may have an error, or possibly Sydfyenske Jernbaner may have bought more than one Baldwin!

Page 285 would be a reference to another document, possibly an order book as such. That might reveal that this engine, "No. 52,"is not the one in the photograph.


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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:10 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:05 am
Posts: 481
Attachment:
BLW16293.jpg
BLW16293.jpg [ 278.06 KiB | Viewed 5850 times ]

Attachment:
BLW16293AB.jpg
BLW16293AB.jpg [ 299.23 KiB | Viewed 5834 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:47 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 343
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Thank you so much for the specification sheets Austin!! The first one is for the 16. The second sheet is for two Americans ordered, #17&18. All three locomotives were the first three American locomotives in Denmark. They were ordered by the chief mechanic of the SFJ when he was visiting the US to study steam design there. His later locomotives were heavily influenced by American steam locomotives. He unfortunately died on the Titanic when making another trip to the US to study more steam.

We own this locomotive which is one of those influenced designs, and is one of the smoothest and best performing locomotives in Denmark!

Sorry for the side story, just an interesting bit of information that also hopefully helps clear up the confusion about 2 Baldwin 0-4-0's of which there was truly only 1, and then two Americans


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File comment: US influenced 2-6-2 built by Henschel in 1907
OKMJ_14_1965.jpg
OKMJ_14_1965.jpg [ 163.01 KiB | Viewed 5827 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:30 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3971
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
No need to be sorry for the side story, it's still fascinating to see how designers were willing to study what might work for them over the years.

Out of curiosity, are there any photos of the Baldwin 4-4-0s available? I might guess they would have been a pretty pair--though to American eyes it might seem strange to see them without a pilot but with links and buffers.


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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 3:47 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 343
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Sorry, just got around to finding the photo now. Definitely an interesting locomotive. The tender speaks of an old danish design, unfitting of the American (both meanings implied)! I cant say whether that was the tender built by Baldwin or a modification made by SFJ.


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SCAN0619.JPG
SCAN0619.JPG [ 112.76 KiB | Viewed 5597 times ]

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Stuart Harrod
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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 5:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:56 pm
Posts: 4
Very interesting locomotive!
It looks to me like coupling a piece of rollingstock to the front of the engine would have been quite difficult with the pilot in the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:19 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 343
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
So, after a bit of searching I have not had much luck finding part drawings (except standard parts), but an overall drawing and more operational history has been uncovered about SFJ 16! A friend managed to remember an article that was published 5 years ago about the switching locomotives of the SFJ, which had a nice and small section about the little loco. In the article it also featured the real builders photo of the locomotive, and a late in life photo, showing the water tank extension to the front of the smoke box. It is still funny to think that the locomotive was ordered on August 30th from a Swedish sales agent and finished by January 2...slow for the size of the locomotive...

There are still plenty of archives to search, hopefully something fruitful will turn up shortly

The builders photo seems to reveal that it was taken inside the factory based on the reflections on the domes. Was that typical? It seems from those I have seen that the builders photo was normally done outside


Attachments:
SFJ 16 Baldwin Builder photo.png
SFJ 16 Baldwin Builder photo.png [ 285.38 KiB | Viewed 5433 times ]
1926 50 year jubileum.png
1926 50 year jubileum.png [ 243.23 KiB | Viewed 5433 times ]
File comment: CAD files are already being produced based on the drawings we have
snifter angle.png
snifter angle.png [ 284.41 KiB | Viewed 5433 times ]

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Stuart Harrod
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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:56 pm 

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 8:35 pm
Posts: 298
At the old Baldwin plant the builder's photos were either taken inside, or on the turntable. They had some beautiful photography, many of the photos were Sepia Toned a nice copper color. I have some prints from the 1890's and the clarity is FANTASTIC !

Kevin K.


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 Post subject: Re: Baldwin #16293
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 544
Location: Granby, CT but formerly Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
The classic location for early (ca. 1870s-1880s) Baldwin builder's photos was in the middle of Broad Street (Philadelphia), directly outside the erecting shop. The engines were apparently just rolled straight out the door on a panel of track, sometimes occupying most of the width of the street. I've always wondered how Baldwin got permission to do this, or if anyone ever complained that they were blocking traffic.

-Philip Marshall


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