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 Post subject: Re: Economics of Small Locomotives
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:50 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 728
Location: Wall, NJ
For a little first hand experience, I owned a very small 3’ gauge Porter fireless with a partner here in southern NJ. Yes, I had visions of seeing it used at various locations, but never did get to that point as my partner on the engine died very suddenly. A couple of data points:

* A location to store the locomotive where you can also work on it can be challenging. This was a tiny 7 ton Porter but sat just high enough that an 8’ door was several inches too low. We had a good location for the engine here in NJ, but this site was lost with the death of my partner. Be sure to have a Plan B for a place to keep it.

* As to ownership, with the loss of my partner, I lost half the team supporting the project. Keep this in mind as you look at any kind of group ownership concept. Again, comes under the idea of control whether by an individual/family or a group.

* While it was a tiny 7 ton Porter, it was not cheap to move, generally in the thousands of dollars to do so. Distance was not the real driver. Whether I moved it 50 miles or 500 miles it was still expensive.

* Our Porter was narrow gauge in a standard gauge land. I had several offers to keep it here in NJ, but none were narrow gauge. To stuff and mount a running locomotive just went against my grain. Plus, it had an open cab so some sort of enclosed storage was required. No one had that locally. We put too much work into it to see it trashed by sitting in the NJ weather.

In the end I ended up selling it. If it had been a small standard gauge engine, with an enclosed cab, it might have stayed here in NJ.

Bottom line, think things though. Ensure you have a Plan B for every element of the project.

J.R.


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 Post subject: Re: Economics of Small Locomotives
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:29 am
Posts: 65
Location: NE Indiana
I,ve been watching this topic to see the replies,and hotbox has pretty well summed up my feelings as i could put into words. Dad and I never had moving the engines around the country as a goal when we started with 75 25 years ago. We have sort of fell into it thanks to several individuals and groups looking to do something different and we being crazy enough to try it.
As far as cost goes, it is making enough to cover the exspenses but that is it. Dad is retired and my wife is VERY understanding ,At least so far, so that is how we can afford to do it. The initial restoration was done as money was available hence the reason it took ten years to do. Dad and I are a group of two and you should have seen some of the fights in the shop of how we were going to do things,(the lettering on 126's tank was a real one ugly before I won).
As was stated above the work may not have been"museum quality" but we never tried for that, and being on the road doing what we did saved our rears several times, as alot of the places we go are smaller operations where alot of time and money has been spent on this event and we are in a cannot fail situation , it also means that the money is tight and if we charge what some argue we should to quote make a living off it they could not afford to have us or any engine there. So some of Dad and I 's reward is shareing it with everyone,In the 12000 miles 75 has run dad and I have run less than 250, and more than 2000 different people have run itso we look at that as some of the reward of the work of restoration.
Transportation, We kicked the idea of hauling it around ourselves but looking at the cost of maintaining truck ,insurance, and dealing with the states in permits to move it we decided quickly to let someone else do it. Dealing with permits is a nightmare as all states are different.We were very fortunate to connect with our truck driver and if it wasnt for him we would not be doing this as it removes a large headache among several that go with this endevour,I.e. coal wheres it coming from ,water where we going to get it ,will we have any help, where we going to park our camper,get to that in a minute,will we be able to do what our customer wants,. Not worrying if the engine is gonna make it there in time is worth ALOT in the scheme of things. Scott Symans with Viscose 6 has an earthmoving business so he has a need for the truck and hence he hauls it himself.
Of all the places we've been we have never stayed in a hotel as it cheaper for the group we are visiting to let us stay in our camper on the grounds,and honestly we like that better as we are right there with the engine to get things going in the morning or work on it during the week. Alot of our events are more than one weekend and we are 12 hours or more from home so going home for the week doesnt make much sense,also extra cost of hotel for whole week could be a deal breaker for the group. Dad just got home from being on th road since the middle of April 126 ran every weekend since the first of February this year so you need to like being gone if you want to really persue it. Dad wont admit it but he didn't want to be gone that long it just worked out that way this year.
Marketing ;In this industry it is every bit if not more important than location. We have seen some places we go make some good money while we were there. The next year less ,what happened, marketing or more importantly lack of.Just cause we did good last time doesnt mean it will be good again, if you have a good marketing person helping you organization they might be more important than the one welding trap doors on your coaches.
A couple of groups have moved an engine before but scheduling everones vacation is very challenging and hence most dont do it.Also who is in charge when its on the road , at times something comes up and a decision must be made on the spot,having a committee meeting don't cut it when the train is loaded ready to go and something comes up.
Dont be scared of trying this if your group wants to . It has been Very rewarding for us and there are alot of engines out there that would work great for this. Just do your homework and develop a plan and try it. If it was easy everyone would do it.I would gladly help anyone who has questions about some of the details .
I hope i didnt waste any of your time with this as I can't type at all and my mind runs faster than my two fingers do.
Sincerely, Barney Gramling


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 Post subject: Re: Economics of Small Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:17 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:57 pm
Posts: 100
You will need to decide whether the market is "spot hire" for special events or seasonal hire for regular daily running, which generally gets a lower daily rate.

Do you intend to operate the locomotive yourself or trust the hirer to do so, in which case how well do you know them and their capabilities. What is their water treatment regime.

Tim


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