Hi,
Can anyone explain the proper way to clean the airbox. It has oil and sludge build up. The airbox drains are open because oil comes out of them.
Is the dirty airbox also the cause for the roots blower filters to be sucked in? We only had enginne since January and it doesn't get a heavy loading, 5th notch for 30 seconds at most. Hasn't rained here to drag the train to give it a heavy load.

Thanks in advance
Todd

Start with scrapers and a shop vac, and be prepared to get very, very dirty. There should not be THAT much oil in the air box. Carbon goop for sure, but if your airbox is filling with straight oil, consistently, you might have other issues.

We, and every other marine engine I have ever seen and dealt with, run with the air box drains open. Its always a good telltale.

Not sure if there ever was an MI on the subject, so I am not sure there is a "right way".

The down and dirty shortline way has always been to to start with a putty knife and dig out as much as you can. Then go back with a solvent like mineral spirits and spray it all down. Some use a pressure washer which would tend to cause rust if you didn't start it up again shortly after, but if it's going back into service right way wouldn't be a problem. After your done, roll it over with the test cocks open just in case.

If you do it frequently enough (1-4 times per year), you can probably skip the putty knife and attack it with the solvents first.

Just as a little note -- this is pretty obvious, but it might just matter this one time -- if you are going to be using a solvent, be very careful what you use to 'suck it out' if using a vacuum. Shop-Vacs, for example, send the exhaust air through the motor and its sparking brushes, not a happy prospect even on colder days.

I've used a garden sprayer that is compatible with solvents, together with some careful handle modifications to brass wire brushes, to get into the nooks and crannies for this kind of thing; used to be you'd use dental mirrors and old indirect-ophthalmoscope lenses to see the inaccessible parts, but now there are borescopes and small cameras with light sources that would let you stream the cleaning job to the Web if you wanted.

And if you use a regular 'water' pressure washer be careful what you use as a 'cleaner'. I'd strongly advise staying almost religiously away from Simple Green, which eats, etches, or otherwise ruins anything technological it comes near, and on top of that doesn't do a particularly good job of degreasing even with separate rinse steps afterward. I am sure Preston Cook and some others have specific advice on cleaning solutions or solvents to apply, how to apply them, how to rinse or passivate afterwards, and how to vacuum out or soak up any remaining fluid. I might be too alarmist, but I would not want to fire the engine up to suck out the 'rest' of the water and degreaser after doing this job ... actual professional engine maintainers may laugh at me for this if you like.

Just a note of clarification. I wouldn't use a vacuum cleaner with solvents at all. In fact we could right a whole thread on solvent use and safety. But that's not my field so I won't start one....

My personal thoughts would be to stay away from degreaser, petroleum based solvents have always seemed to work well.

The pressure washing I have seen done always involved a pressure washer with a heater hot enough to melt the goo loose on it's own. When your done the surface is hot enough that the water evaporates and dries off with out leaving rust behind.

Overmod, if your using dental picks and mirrors, your a better man than me!

Speaking of EMD 567's, anybody got one (A, B, BC or C) that they might be willing to part with? Send me a PM.


Les

The specific EMD MI that covers the 567 roots blower engines is MI 1704. This is not generally available any more and may be difficult to find. The comparable MI covering the 645 roots blower locomotive engines is MI 1738, this is much more easily found. Both have very similar maintenance recommendations: Check functioning of air box drains monthly; Inspect the engine air box every three months. No mention in either one of air box cleaning as a periodically scheduled maintenance item.

It is unfortunate that EMD does not have these scheduled maintenance recommendations available to the public on their website like Detroit Diesel used to do. It would be a nice public service and certainly would not cost them any lost business.

If the engine is eating filter elements, this is not a normal condition at all. There may be something relating to the maintenance interval or local operating conditions that is resulting in the filters plugging too soon, or there may be a problem with the type of filters themselves or the filter frame resulting in them not being retained in place adequately.

PC

Mr. Cook, what other factors might cause the Roots-blower filters to be 'sucked in' other than the filters being physically plugged or weakened somehow?

There is some reference in this (otherwise highly-interesting-to-567-people!) thread

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77588

to valve timing affecting crud in the airbox, and perhaps 'by extension' changing the airbox pressure in a way that on a non-positive-displacement blower might lead to increased effectivce suction pressure. But on a Roots blower I wouldn't expect anything back-pressure-related at all to affect intake filters.

The engine mounted filters see the pressure differential between the interior of the carbody and the blower inlet duct. Plugged carbody filters would increase the pressure differential between atmosphere and the interior of the carbody, effect on the engine filters would be minimal. Obstructions in the engine air box flow path would tend to increase output pressure of the roots blowers and could contribute to smoking but the differential across the engine filters is likely to go down due to reduced flow.

The filters themselves and the filter frame are more likely to be involved in this problem. For example, if the filter frame was originally for panel oil bath filters and was retrofitted with fiberglass elements, and they do not fit properly or are not retained adequately in the frame.

Another question to consider, does the engine have any unusual vibration problems at the flywheel end that might be contributing to the engine filters becoming dislodged from the frames?

PC

I agree with Preston... As for the filter loading take a look at your exhaust base gaskets. If they are leaking you are going to be sucking in oily residue combined with road dirt that will load a filters quickly.

You would be amazed at how well an EMD will run with loaded filters. I was on a 12 cylinder SW that was reported as whistling through the dipstick hole when the stick was pulled. Also the ice cream box lid was impossible to open with the unit running.

Root cause was engine air filters filters so loaded with dirt that the engine was trying to breath thru the oil separator when the dipstick was pulled. The large sealing surface area of the ice cream box made it impossible to pull against the suction of the running engine.

EBL

The engine you are working on , was the timing ever check , the fuel injectors
set and did anyone set the rack .
The air filters is effect by the environment.
The air box cleaning use a scraper and a wet vac and a small hard bristle brush , do not power wash the air box you clogged up the air box drains . It is possible you may
have chrome liners , which is know to make air boxes wet with oil
and dirty.
To make your engine work little harder take a 5 lb to 10 lb reduction on your train .

Perhaps the best pun of any RyPN posting.