.

Well this all sounds and reads like good progress. If -- (
and AMRRM has the choice obviously in how they proceed since it is owned by them) , to replace the crown sheet in this fashion.
What would be a reasonable expectation of cost and time to do it?
Obviously this isn't work for the local weld shop, as boiler work is exacting specific work. Noi axe to grind here, just curious how big of a check needs written, and wondering if I will live to see the day.

If you check out Rick's photos, it's plain to see that there are a lot of side sheet replacements in progress anyhow - one more piece of boiler plate will only add to the cost for the boiler work combined. How much depends on many things, such as who is doing the work.

I'd do the thicker plate and the nuts - why not make it last as long as possible?

Hi,

Hasn't there been a revision to the boiler code recently so that welded boilers are acceptable?

Doug vV

Welded boilers have been acceptable since the late 1930s or early 1940s.

Dave,

You bring up a good point. As the crown bolts would require removal regardless, why not make the replacements long enough to accommodate finial nuts? It has been established that a 1/2" thick roof sheet will be adequate to support 205 psig, however, I wonder as to the practicality of including the nuts? Kelly would be best at settling that debate. I'd imagine it all boils down to cost associated with the scope of work involved.

It's only money, right? :)

Best,
DC

Hi Penn,

Welded boilers have been around for quite a while. However, it was my understanding that welded boilers for railroad locomotives were not permitted since the last RR boiler codes were drawing up in the 1940s or 1950s and only had specifications for rivets.

I think these codes were updated in the last 4-6 years to allow welded boilers for steam locomotives.

Doug vV

Santa Fe and D&H, to name just two, were using welded boilers way back. At the time, welding was considered an exotic art, so they had to get permission to do that. After a while, welded boilers proved themselves. Santa Fe replaced a lot of riveted nickle-steel boilers on 4-8-4's with all-welded, carbon steel boilers.

Today, it's just the opposite. Riveted boilers are considered ancient witchcraft by most codes and inspectors. ASME hasn't updated it's codes for riveted boiler construction in decades, because they see no good engineering reason for anyone to want to build a new, riveted pressure vessel.

ASME is currently thinking about revising and updating the code pertaining to rivets.
The big problem is that riveting is pretty much a lost art when it comes down to specific temperatures (how hot is too hot or not hot enough). Traditionally, it's been based on the color of the heated rivet, but that is hugely subjective. Expect some specifics in the revised code regarding acceptable temperature out of the oven and temperature while driving the rivet.

In this day and age, riveted boilers are more expensive and time-consuming to build than welded, assuming a code shop can be found to build a riveted boiler in the first place. That might be the main reason why the Promontory replicas built in the 1970s have all-welded boilers.

I was at a code shop yesterday that builds riveted locomotive type boilers. The WW&F in Maine are going to have two fully riveted boilers built very soon as well. There are others as well that can rivet boilers together. Its not quite as lost of an art as it may seem. There are enough code shops out there to meet the demand for riveted boilers and riveted repair work.

Add to the list the Chesapeake & Ohio, whose last five Kanawhas (2-8-4s) came from Alco in 1947 with welded boilers. Of this group, numbered 2785 to 2789, the 2789 is still with us at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson, Indiana.

"Look, Ma, no rivets!"

At least not in the boiler shell:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1613492

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2880009

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2721250

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1047534

I must say that it is a relief to actually read a factual account of this locomotive's unfortunate story without the usual histrionics. I suspect that it also helps that we are now 16 years post Part 230 and there is a much wider understanding and more general agreement of the engineering standards that apply. It is refreshing to read a serious discussion of the alternatives available for the repair of this boiler.

Notice that 1361 has plate grates in the flickr photo set. Different types of grates were discussed in another thread a few months ago.

Some of you may want to review this thread on staybolt stress.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38486&start=15&hilit=staybolt


Robby

Thank you very much for those extensive and detailed photos. It's good to have some actual information about this vexed object.

Does anyone know if the museum has announced its plans for the locomotive? A timeline for completed restoration? Are they still planning to steam it? Static display?

thanks Rick, great to finally see how the 1361 sits today.