Re: the Flimsies piece below, concerning the new station for the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic in Ohio. Turns out the $175,000 "station" is just a shelter with benches. Surely there is an endangered real station somewhere that could be acquired, moved and restored for a similar amount or less?

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1048343476102091.xml
ryarger@rypn.org

> Re: the Flimsies piece below, concerning the
> new station for the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic
> in Ohio. Turns out the $175,000
> "station" is just a shelter with
> benches. Surely there is an endangered real
> station somewhere that could be acquired,
> moved and restored for a similar amount or
> less?

You are not taking the effect of the public sector into account here Bob.

For about 10K worth of construction materials and a few $39 benches from KMart, I could build one. If I need to get it permitted and inspected, douuble the cost. If there needs to be an architect involved, quadruple the cost. If there needs to be an environmental impact study, or multiple bidders, public sector oversight, ADA or other considerations which cost much less to build than to document the building of, certainly ten to twenty times the "real" cost isn't out of line.

What is miraculous is that we actually get anything done despite the obstacles legislated in our way to make our world a better place.

Dave

> You are not taking the effect of the public
> sector into account here Bob.

I seem to remember a regulation saying that public construction costing over $200,000 also requires an archeological dig. Keeping it less than 200Gs can be a bargain in a lot of ways.

mustang746@earthlink.net

I'd be curious about just what a 'shelter' is... let's see a pic if you can. We (SC&D) were involved with the State of West Virginia for a TEA-21 grant to put up passenger shelters along the West Virginia Central (CSXT Bergoo line) - we used Western Maryland standard flagstop shelter plans in the application, and they were funded for $50k (about 1997). I'm not sure what the 'final' cost was, but they got five "new" historic shelters, I think, of authentic WMRR design done off of that grant, that also double as hiking trail shelters (hint, that's how they got funded). But yes, you can still easily spend $175k for one, particularly in a National Scenic Area area when everybody gets to add things with a long review process and specific architectural details.

randygustafson@stoneconsulting.com

> For about 10K worth of construction
> materials and a few $39 benches from KMart,
> I could build one. If I need to get it
> permitted and inspected, douuble the cost.
> If there needs to be an architect involved,
> quadruple the cost. If there needs to be an
> environmental impact study, or multiple
> bidders, public sector oversight, ADA or
> other considerations which cost much less to
> build than to document the building of,
> certainly ten to twenty times the
> "real" cost isn't out of line.

All of the above is true. Let us also point out that the fabled "$637 hammer" of the military actually stems from total costing analysis, which comes from taking a custom-made hammer, adding the cost of inventory, shipping, procurement, design, training video, etc. I once saw an attorney's bill which charged for everything but the air he had to breathe while thinking about whether he was going to pursue the action--same principle.

Don't even ask about how many bureaucrats it takes to change a light bulb.

lner4472@bcpl.net