So can Iowa Pacific's managers/legal counsel not read? I doubt this was "hidden" in the contract. Usually figuring out how much you can get paid is kind of important.

Also, what exactly is IP's "core business"?

I suspect the accountants are feverishly trying to figure that out as we speak...

Also, what exactly is IP's "core business"?

Have you ever seen the musical "The Music Man"? It might be a good time to rewatch that and see if the lead character resembles anybody you might know.

T7

"Also, what exactly is IP's "core business"?"

Um, painting things in Illinois Central colors?

Howard P.

This reminds me of a classic Dilbert comic.

Lets be careful... this thread is only welcome if it is about railroads and preservation, not comments about Iowa Pacific's management. As long as it is about changes in the management of heritage or tourist railroads (i.e.Texas State RR) or possible availability of rolling stock all is good... but I do enjoy the Dilbert comic...

Your always friendly moderator, Randy

I was actually being serious. Does anyone know what IP's "core business" is? Do they operate much if any freight on the lines they operate? Car leasing? Storage?

I think the "core business" could be considered "short lines"...which includes car storage and freight hauling, at least one tourist operation. Understand that "Iowa Pacific Holdings" is actually a number of smaller operations that may have some independence. Some of the smaller operations may fail and some of them may survive. Some of them have been operating for years and doing ok. It will just take time to see what shakes out.

About that historic equipment: Most of the equipment is stashed somewhere "high and dry" where it is physically hard to access. Far off the nearest Class 1...it would cost thousands of dollars to move some of the cars out if they are even interchangeable. Many of those cars were moved into storage on flat-bed trucks...imagine the cost. One notable one was the IC bedroom-lounge which was trucked all the way from Louisiana to this storage spot...we know it is not interchangeable so you must add the trucking cost to any purchase price. So if you are licking your chops hopeing to bid on this equipment...consider any of the equipment for sale on Ozark Maountain Railcar. There are cars, locomotive and more...all ready for inspection and accessible. I find it hard to imagine that there is a shortage of equipment available...maybe bargain hunters?

T7

A safe bet for shipping is about $15k for shipping via flatcar, east of the mississippi river. The further west you go the higher the cost...basically $15k per time zone is a good rule of thumb...
Anything shipped on CSX is going to be easiest on a flat car, as they will resist shipping a passenger car on its own wheels...

I would look over any deal with Iowa Pacific carefully, as its hard to tell if they actually own some of those cars...

OK, so let's go with the assumption that comment is accurate and simply a statement of fact.

Precisely what do you do to prove ownership of a railroad car? They don't have titles. If it's on the AB&C and they offer to sell it to me, how do I determine that it's not, in fact, owned by the XY&Z, or that it's been used at Collateral for a bank loan at the First National Bank of Whoville and they have a lien on the car?

Presumably, if something comes up after the fact, you sue the AB&C for selling something they didn't own. But what happens when they say "Yeah, you got us... Oh, BTW, we're bankrupt, so good luck on collecting."

A friend of mine had the best advice ever...he was a brilliant businessman and a private car owner so take this to heart:

A. Do not buy anything unless the seller is desperate to get rid of it...only then can you negotiate a reasonable price.

B. Do not write the check until the wheels roll (best of you can be on board the car when it is picked up for interchange).

And C...no matter what the inspection reports show...something IS wrong with it and it WILL cost you a boat-load of money to fix it.

T7

"Precisely what do you do to prove ownership of a railroad car?"

The only thing you can do is ask to see a copy of the Bill of Sale. As noted, there is no formal title to these things. If there is a lien on it (not very common) there should be a notice posted somewhere on the car.

The network of people who buy these things is small enough that if you keep your eyes and ears open, you will eventually hear if there is some questions as to the rightful ownership of a given car. You could even post a question on a forum such as this one and people who are familiar with car so-and-so will tell you what they know.

Off hand, it's been awhile since I have heard of anyone being charged with Grand Theft RR car, so buying a car that is really owned by someone other than the seller you dealt with is pretty rare.

On the other hand, railroad cars and/or locomotives CAN be repossessed, provided you have a cooperative railroad and crew, and an owner willing to pay the freight bills.

I was hired to repossess a leased passenger car from a passenger operation over a freight short line and "escort" it back to its home base five states away, and the car was literally being switched onto the owner's property when the angry phone call came in from the non-paying lessor.......

Might be a hard to convince the seller of that arrangement. Maybe some kind of an escrow agreement would be more acceptable to both parties.

See item A...if the seller is desperate...
T7