Greg, and others,

Yes, the L&N had three (3) streamlined steam locomotives. They were streamlined for the South Wind and other Chicago-Florida services. The most famous of the bunch was 295, originally built as a 3 cylinder locomotive by Alco in the 1920s. It was convered to a regular 2 cylinder locomotive and streamlined. The other two, (I can't remmber the exact numbers) were streamlined from conventional K5 USRA light pacifics.

david.wilkins@inisightbb.com

It is interesting to see what if; but recall the railroads were not doing well in 1950, they were aware that they had to spend really big dollars to fund the change to Diesels.

Take the New Haven, they were supposed to have offered their last steam engine to a certin museum in Connecticut. A friend of mine is a founding member there and he remebers that they did not offer it, in fact claimed that the scrap dollars were all they wanted because they could add depreciation dollars to them as well.

And so it went. I think we are lucky to have what we have. If you love a Park loco; find out who owns it and get out there with a brush and get some paint on it.

Try to raise money to get the asbestos off before it becomes panic time. It is impsssible to fund raise when panic hits. It is better to display it than scrap it and better in a museum than an unprotected Park.

Devote time and money to your favorite museum. Most of us have some cash that we can send to a railroad cause, do it as ofton as you can!

ted_miles@nps.gov

Not complaining....just relaying. Mr. Byrd as you know was a fine man and passionate about steam although he had some good diesel stories also. I don't feel that he was "punishing" KRM, only exercising his God-given right to support whichever group he chose. He ran the steamer at French Lick, Indiana for many years and then migrated to the Tennessee Railroad Museum in Chattanooga.

> Interesting story.

> On another note, I was working on sorting
> some of my dads old train negatives and ran
> across a strip of 3 L&N shots. The left
> one looks like a pacific(might be 152), the
> middle shot looks to be a streamlined
> pacific, and the right shot another shot of
> the older pacific. Hard to see numbers
> without a glass. Did the L&N have
> streamlined Pacifics??? Or any other class
> engine streamlined?
> Greg Scholl

Greg: By now you have heard from David Wilkins that the L&N did indeed have streamlined 4-6-2's. As for the older engine in your Dads photos being the 152, the key might be the tender. The 152 was retrofitted with a former GM&O tender which was quite distinctive. Not sure how many other Pacifics of her class had that type tender but you might be able to confirm that the locomotive your Dad got some pictures of was indeed the 152 that way. Incidentally, I understand that KRM still has 152's ex-GM&O tender. Mid-Continent is renovating C&NW 4-6-0 #1385's old tender to put back behind the Ten-Wheeler. Can we hope that KRM might also someday team up the 152 with ITS old tender for an accurate representation of what it actually looked like when in active service? Something to hope for I think!

Les Beckman (HVRM)

midlandblb@cs.com

> Now, I have never seen anything in the
> official KRM correspondence that indicated
> that the L&N offered the museum another
> locomotive, namely a Big Emma. While that is
> not definate, most of the informaiton that I
> have heard it tend to come more from rumor
> than fact. At the time,(the late 1950s) the
> KRM was cramped in a very small tract of
> land by the Ohio River in Downtown
> Louisville. If they L&N actually offered
> another locomotive to the museum, I can
> honestly see why it was turned down. If the
> museum didn't have the space, and was having
> a hard enough time preserving what they had,
> then they made a pretty wise choice. Had the
> L&N really wanted one preserved, they
> could have put one on display at South
> Louisville Shops, kept one, or offered it to
> another museum. While I will dig more on
> this, I honestly don't think that it is true
> that the L&N even offered such a
> donation. Most of the preserved L&N
> equipment occurred quite by chance, with no
> real rhyme or reason. It just happened to be
> sitting around at the right time, like 152,
> or our Jim Crow combine. I just hate to see
> unverifiable rumors spread around on subject
> such as this. It is important to remember
> that what is done is done and complaining
> about it is not very constructive.

David: I agree that the chance that KRM was offered a "Big Emma" and turned it down seems extremely remote to me. For two reasons:

1. Louisville was the L&N's "home town" and the L&N was Louisville's "home railroad." The people at KRM at that time would probably have jumped at the chance to get a L&N 2-8-4. No room for it? Bunk! If L&N was willing to donate it, they surely would have asked them to store it someplace (surely the L&N had 100' of empty track somewhere on their line) or made arrangements to store it elsewhere.

2. C&O 2-8-4 2716 was from a railroad that was a "minor" line when it came to serving Louisville as compared to the L&N. Plus, at least 5 other Kanawha's were already preserved by 1960, with 5 more being given away in 1960 and 1961. I have no doubt that the boys at KRM would have gladly traded the 2716 for the ONLY "Big Emma."

I hope David, you can eventually put this one to rest.

Les Beckman (HVRM)

midlandblb@cs.com

> Greg: By now you have heard from David
> Wilkins that the L&N did indeed have
> streamlined 4-6-2's. As for the older engine
> in your Dads photos being the 152, the key
> might be the tender. The 152 was retrofitted
> with a former GM&O tender which was
> quite distinctive. Not sure how many other
> Pacifics of her class had that type tender
> but you might be able to confirm that the
> locomotive your Dad got some pictures of was
> indeed the 152 that way. Incidentally, I
> understand that KRM still has 152's
> ex-GM&O tender. Mid-Continent is
> renovating C&NW 4-6-0 #1385's old tender
> to put back behind the Ten-Wheeler. Can we
> hope that KRM might also someday team up the
> 152 with ITS old tender for an accurate
> representation of what it actually looked
> like when in active service? Something to
> hope for I think!

> Les Beckman (HVRM)

Turns out it was not 152, but a 2-8-2. A buddy was just here and he even read the numbers on the neg. Anyway, he took the 3 negs along with a bunch of N&W stuff, and is going to hit the dark room tonight to make some enlargements off of them. We think the engines were shot near the roundhouse area for Cincinnati Union Terminal(north of the terminal).
These negatives have been in the original envelops since the 1950's. A few have mold or something affecting them, but most are okay. There were some real neat ones, like a color neg of Batavia Station(our long demolished depot), with a 1200 going by, and other stuff, like my brother watching a train(another 1200). Good stuff with J's, K's and K2a's and Y's as well.
I will be including some of the still images in the video to add extra stuff to the project. Its been fun working on hometown historical stuff. Release will be 04!
Greg


Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

The three streamlined L&N engines were the 275, 277, and 295. They are reported to have had different color schemes. Originally, all had their skirts painted aluminum or silver and the 275 or 277 had either blue or red pin stripes along the edges. I don't know which one had the blue or red. The 295 had red pin stripes but when the South Wind appeared in PRR tuscan, the 295 was later painted tuscan all over with yellow or gold pin stripes.

The 295 was partially de-streamlined in 1952 and painted black and finished her service that way. The 295 had been built as a 3 cylinder loco in the 1920's and sidelined during the depression. When the South Wind was announced, South Louisville Shops rebuilt the 295 as a 2 cylinder loco but it always retained a slightly wider spacing between the drivers than standard pacifics on the roster.

There was also one 3 cylinder 2-8-2, the 1999, which was used on the hump at DeCoursey yard near Cincinnati.

The 295 is shown in action in our video "Reflections of the L&N"

A further note on the 3 streamlined pacifics is that their design was copied after the SP Daylight, apparently by an engineer working at South Louisville Shops. So far as I know, drawings for the streamlining have not surfaced so a reference on paper is not available. The design was similar to the SP's Sunbeam pacifics. If I can locate aphoto of the 295, I'll post it here.

> A further note on the 3 streamlined pacifics
> is that their design was copied after the SP
> Daylight, apparently by an engineer working
> at South Louisville Shops. So far as I know,
> drawings for the streamlining have not
> surfaced so a reference on paper is not
> available. The design was similar to the
> SP's Sunbeam pacifics. If I can locate
> aphoto of the 295, I'll post it here.

Hi Jim,
Yes the photo does resemble an SP Sunbeam Pacific and thats what threw me I guess, and why I questioned L&N having them. I am not any kind of expert on L&N steam thats for sure. Did these run into Cincinnati, and when was the last time they ran there. Am trying to get some idea what year these photos were takin. Am guessing 54-57!
Greg Scholl


Videos
sales@gregschollvideo.com

I agree that trying to make something out of fragments of information is not very constructive, hence, I rarely jump in on these kinds of discussions. However, I was just recently reading through a friend's old issue of Live Steam magazine, from the '70's if I'm not mistaken, and they had printed a letter from a fellow who had just started a 7-1/2" gauge Big Emma. Don't know what ever came of the engine, but this is probably the easiest way to recapture a lost locomotive and bring it back in miniature scale form. While a locomotive of this size would be quite a project for anyone, a small group of fellas (maybe 4 to 6 altogeter) could easily pool their resources and build one or two of them. It's quite often done in the live steam community today. Maybe one fella has more financial resources than the others. Maybe one is an expert draftsmen or CAD operator. Maybe one knows a welder and another a machinist or two. And, anyone can learn these skills with a little time.

I'll get off my soap box for now. If half of the time spent collectively reminiscing went in to building or restoring, we would have more of what we just talk about!

Everyone have a great Easter. Hope it's warm where you are! If anyone is interested in live steam and doesn't know where to get started, let me. I can probably help you find an individual or club in your area.

rtrain@nls.net