While considerably removed from the Pennsylvania area discussed, it might be worth adding the Beckley Exhibition Coal Mine, owned by the City of Beckley, W.Va., to the file.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips-Sprague_Mine

https://beckley.org/general-information-coal-mine/

https://beckley.org/underground-tour/

https://vimeo.com/138702637

https://visitwv.com/trip-tools/trip-iti ... itinerary/

As I read the responses, while they are relevant, each one also highlights the reoccurring thought that many in our industry simply can't/don't/won't work to relate to the herd. Without the (sometimes) tacky events, succinct social media/internet media presence, and a focused ability to be (sometimes) publicly/politically correct the key spectators simply aren't going to be interested in what we are selling.

Regardless of how well intentioned many in the railroad preservation community are, or believe themselves to be, communicating with the minions is a valuable talent that is missing. RYPN itself illustrates this problem...excellently. Read any number of threads and you will discover a laundry list of individuals that believe their way...is the only way. This mindset dominates how many speak to the public. "People just don't care about their roots anymore! Darn Millenials! They don't now or care how this country was made. (Cue 4-letter words)" And, when they do show up they are often spoken down to or dismissed.

The organizations that are sustaining and growing know how to play to the masses. The rest are living out their existence on life support. PEOPLE make organizations great...not the equipment.

I’ve lived in Indiana County PA fifty miles from Altoona and 25 miles from Johnstown all of my fifty one years. I’m employed in media sales. The Altoona-Johnstown region has done a very poor job of promoting heritage sites as day trip destinations within the region for the past twenty years or more. The Seldom Seen Coal Mine is just a small victim of the “people should know about us, we’ve been here forever” mindset.

The company I formerly worked for published print and online regional tourism guides distributed to well over 100,000 paid print subscribers and far more online viewers. I made repeated attempts to get the Altoona and Johnstown tourist burueas to market in our Westmoreland/Indiana/Pittsburgh region media. Interesting historical attractions such as the Horseshoe Curve, Railroaders Memorial Museum, Johnstown Flood Museum and South Fork Dam ruins, Regional Heritage Discovery Center(great for the kids), Johnstown Vehicular Inclined Plane, DelGrosso Amusement Park in Tipton, and many others were always contacted. None except the Baker Mansion museum at Masion Park in Altoona ever advertised (and they did so faithfully because people saw it)All said variations of “ We put our money in national guides, billboards and direct mail.” Great, ignore the hundreds of thousands of people within 100 miles to target someone ten states away who is not going to travel several hundred to several thousand miles to visit these small but interesting attractions.

As advertising has transitioned to online searches and social media, the regional organizations haven’t done much to keep up. Many rarely if ever update their websites. Most do not have any active social media posts. Very little good comes from having Facebook or Twitter accounts if your posts are all three years old.

One Blair County attraction has its act together in regard to modern marketing and ticketing- The Everett Railroad in Hollidaysburg. The rest of the regional attractions should look at their website, Facebook and email programs, plus the easy online booking as a model for their operations. The Railroaders Memorial Museum should sponsor “Museum and train ride” events in conjunction with the Everett RR. They are less than ten miles apart. Just an Idea.

Back in the 1980s a grant was used to jointly promote railroad heritage and tourist operations - a "railroad heritage trail" or some such thing - I think it offered a discount to attractions involved. I don't know if it failed, or why, but it doesn't seem to have been repeated. I like then idea of having a less narrowly defined set of partners since people interested in railroads enough to want to visit all of them already know about them, but people with a broader interest in exploring a region's history and attractions without knowing much might find it useful.

I would have to agree on the thoughts of steamloco76. Coming from a marketing-intensive education, the world of targeting the public with your organization or business has changed significantly with the prevalence of social media.

If your organization is one to post infrequently, say less than a post every week, you will be facing an uphill battle to retain attention from the outside. Far too often have I seen people surprised at an organization still existing due to the fact the organization doesn't put their name out there often enough.

Likewise, I'd have to agree that focus on more traditional means of reaching the public should be directed locally. The die-hards who want to come see you, distance and cost not being an object, will most likely find you themselves. The more casual visitor, on the other hand, will probably not go out of their way to visit you, unless you are positioned close to the person or have a partnership with other local establishments they wish to visit. Within 100 miles of Altoona/HSC are millions of potential customers, many of which would probably be more likely to visit as a day trip, instead of multi-daying as those from further may feel they have to do.

I'm not sure I understand. The railroads and railroad museums that I am a member of or follow closely are all reporting record ridership / visitors. What railroads are struggling with attendance? (and if they are.. is it obvious why they are struggling?).

Are all the places in question relatively new or small?

Not to be cynical about it, but "record ridership" could mean you went from 500 riders last year to 550 this year. That says nothing about the growth in the market or the long-term sustainability.

"Been there, done that."

One of the hard lessons of any such endeavor is remaining fresh and innovative and "new." Amusement parks install new attractions and rides annually, while quietly dismantling or selling the older, "boring" rides. In craft beers, there's always a run on the newest microbrewery or beer fad, while the "old guard" get increasingly ignored (think Sam Adams--which by some reports is now making more money with Angry Orchard cider than its beer).

It hasn't been "enough" to simply offer a "steam train ride" for decades now. The ones who can be nostalgic for steam are in nursing homes. The East Broad Top's ridership declined slowly for years. The Strasburg's ridership peaked years ago, and now they have to offer "new" things almost every year--parlor car, dining car, "President's Car, Cagneys, Crankey Cars, etc.--and discontinue things going out of fashion. Similar stories no doubt abound at Durango, Conway, Valley RR, Jamestown, Chattanooga, Cass, Scranton, Greenbank, and elsewhere. And, to be completely honest, there are only so many ways to "innovate" around a railroad--there are not going to be bordello/stripclub trains, nor demolition derbies, nor "daredevil" loop-the-loop rides.

There are a few long-running excursion lines where I have to be completely honest and ask "how have they continued to run all these years without changing anything? They don't have the Grand Canyon or a spectacular mountain view at one end, and I'd be hard pressed to give anyone else a reason to ride....."

One more mine for the PA list. The somewhat oddly named "Tour Ed Mine", in Tarentum, PA. "Toured" and "Tour / Ed(ucational)" I guess is where the name originated. It's been around since 1970, though I don't really know how well known it is. In fact, long enough to wonder "Hey, that's still around?" but they look to be doing OK.

They have a strong web presence in any case. https://tour-edmine.com

One thing I noticed is that they now take you underground in a "mine car", which looks pretty fancy and new. Back when it first opened, you went in the real thing, an old man car pulled by an electric mine loco. I can't recall if it was battery of they used trolley wire.

Regarding East Broad Top.. their ridership was on the way UP the last year they closed. East Broad Top closed for very complex reasons as has been discussed many times.

Regarding Strasburg - do you have their ridership numbers to back up your claim that they "peaked " several years ago? As for Cagney Train and Crankey Cars... those aren't attracting anyone to Strasburg... they are designed to keep people on the property to spend more $$$ (a very good idea of course).

Durango set record ridership in 2016 (I think they came close to this or passed it in 2017, couldn't find a source).
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2016/11/01-durango

Cumbres Toltec 2017 ridership was up 7.4 % in 2017.
http://commission.ctsrr.com/wp-content/ ... inutes.pdf

Nevada Northern reported record ridership in 2017 -
http://www.elynews.com/2018/01/19/railw ... assengers/

Regarding Chattanooga... they keep adding trains so I doubt they are seeing ridership decrease. In 2017 they started running Summerville Steam specials at least once per month in the operating season. (formerly it was just an October and November thing). That has been repeated in 2018 along with more dinner trains.

I'm not going to continue researching all the railroads you listed... if you can find any sources to back up your claim please list them.

I think you might be referring to the America's Industrial Heritage Project. This was something that the National Park Service did to jointly promote and link the various industrial heritage attractions in central Pennsylvania. However as is usually the case with such things, once the federal funding runs out the effort quietly goes away. The only thing left are the AIHP Route signs found along various highways in the region. Apparently the enabling law was enacted in 1988 with a 10 year lifespan.

I couldn't find much about it online but I did find this excellent article about it. If only the AIHP had stayed in existence and continued to promote industrial heritage sites.

https://digitalcommons.ursinus.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1139&context=pafolklifemag

I have been on several mine tours over the years and enjoyed them. I believe that the need for retired miners to lead the tours has to do with the MSA has some regulatory authority over these tours. I believe that air quality has to be checked and there are emergency supplies in the mine that the tour guides need knowledge of. As I recall the people responsible for the MSA duties must be certified, or MSA qualified in some way.

As a native of “Silicon Valley”, I had to chuckle.

50 years ago at the dawn of the electronic age, ALL members of the community embraced the emerging semiconductor technology as a clean industry. No more smokestacks. No more filth, No more blight on our landscape. Employees had to gown up to enter work spaces The modern age had arrived.

Prior to semiconductors, the area was known as “The Valley of Heart’s Delight’ where agriculture was plentiful. From 1920 to 1960, the Santa Clara County was the largest food processing region in the world. Reasons for this bounty was the climate, soil and high water table enabling farmers/orchardists to be very productive. Because food processing requires LOTS of water, local officials ensured that industry had access to the water table and allowed some effluent to be recharge into the aquifer.

Here comes the new clean semiconductor industry, which also has a need for water. The old goes out, canneries and agriculture, and the new comes in, electronics and housing. It is a win-win for the community.

In the early 1980s, an abnormal number of birth defects is noted. What could it be? Further investigations lead to the discovery of electronics industry practice of recharging the aquifer with their effluent. It worked for the agriculture industry? Yes, but they did not include cancer causing heavy metals in their discharge.

Today, Santa Clara County as the highest number of Federal Superfund Sites of any US county.

History has glamour and warts. Both need to be shared in classroom and museum environments.

Steamloco76’s post pretty much nailed it.

[quote="Rick RowlandsI think you might be referring to the America's Industrial Heritage Project. This was something that the National Park Service did to jointly promote and link the various industrial heritage attractions in central Pennsylvania. However as is usually the case with such things, once the federal funding runs out the effort quietly goes away. The only thing left are the AIHP Route signs found along various highways in the region. Apparently the enabling law was enacted in 1988 with a 10 year lifespan.quote]

No. It was described as a part of a presentation (back when we were first talking about this "marketing" stuff) at a TRAIN convention in Strasburg. It was decades ago - my beard was dark brown at the time. Handouts were offered, not sure I'd be able to lay hands on the ones I took home back then today. I distinctly recall a map with rail history sites marked on it, and a ticket you got punched at each site visited. The State funded it, not the Feds....... somebody in PA must remember it - there are a few of us left alive from back then.

On the way up from rather dreadful lows, I must say. I saw the railroad throughout the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s to the end, and trust me, ridership in the last few years was nothing like it had been, even discounting the lower operating days/schedule.




Two ironclad cites:


-Erik G. Ledbetter, "Lessons From the Strasburg at 50," Trains, May 2008, pp. 40-47. (Emphasis added.)


-Kurt Bell, "'America's Oldest Short Line' thrives in the 21st century," Classic Trains, Summer 2018, pp. 102-105. (Emphasis added.)

Let me reiterate: I am not attempting to show that "no one rides trains any more"--but showing me single-year increases are as irrelevant as showing me this month's inflation or unemployment figures compared to last month's. I'm looking at the long-term trends, over decades. Absent a built-in "entertainment" or transport factor (Verde Canyon, Grand Canyon, Napa Wine Train, etc.), these train rides are dependent upon marketing and innovation, and a great experience, to survive. We keep seeing the obituaries for the lines and other attractions that don't or can't.

When driving through Arizona today, you just might, if you look hard in the right places, see the remnants of true "ghost towns." You will also find, far more easily along Old Route 66 and other highways, the crumbling remains of "Wild West"-themed attractions like "trading posts," "Indian"-themed motels, reconstructed "frontier" and "ghost" towns, etc. A few of these attractions are actually lovingly preserved and kept alive today as "throwbacks" to the era when they, and pre-Interstate Highway travel, were the norm. Our entertainment and popular culture no longer as heavily features the "Wild West," Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, and "cowboys-&-injuns" westerns, and such celebration is often seen as gauche and distasteful today (although they still stage "shootouts" in Williams, according to signs I saw last weekend).

A lot of steam excursion lines used to be built around this theme and similar ones as well, from the Carroll Park & Western to Tombstone Junction to the Petticoat Junction RR to even the Sierra. The few that survived had to lose the "train robberies" and add the dinner train or parlor/dome car.

We have been going through much of that transition for the past 50 years. And, in my eye, the jury is still out as to whether we, as an "industry," are doing it right, or enough. Does "been there, done that" apply to your museum or operation?