Maybe it more realistically "reeks" of cynical realism.

I once had to go hunt down a dozen vehicles a guy I knew was alleged to have owned scattered all over heck's half-acre after his "disappearance," in hopes of finding enough survivors worth selling to be able to "rescue" the Jaguar E-Type and other "valuables" in a storage unit. We eventually found two Karmann Ghias and a "Super Beetle" in one remote rural storage lot. The yard owner, a friend of the "disappeared," was sympathetic to the situation, but the Ghias literally broke apart when he tried to retrieve them. He sold--for next to nothing--the Super Beetle to someone that had to bring a roll-back in and pull out the carcass....... and even then I think it was just a parts donor. Then I think that guy came back to take what was left of the Ghias to part out for sale.

Now, any sensible storage owner would have sold off the cars the second the payments fell behind, instead of shoving them further and further back in the yard as he did. But the only reason they even existed was because someone grabbed them for a song ages ago and kept them in hopes of doing work on them.

If you perceive a "need" for a B&O E-unit, a PRR baggage car, an Amtrak car, a locomotive, a RailBox boxcar, or whatever, your need is to be proactive and politely, sincerely "badger" the current owner with a realistic proposal and plan. Not condemn him/them when they put the damn thing out of its misery.

Everybody needs to step back and take a deep breath... then consider this fact; almost every restoration, and even some new builds, makes use of parts from "parts donors" which are then ultimately scrapped once they are picked clean, unless they are static displays like park engines. IIRC, Soo Line 1003 "borrowed" appliances from Soo Line 1011 in the park in Ladysmith, WI, while Soo Line 2719 borrowed parts from Soo Line 2713 in Stevens Point, including a wheel center. If such cannibalization would not be allowed, not one but TWO restorations would be stymied; The park engines would be no closer to being restored to operation, and the engines that did get restored would have been a lot further away. Cannibalizing bad order power at the end of its useful line has a long history in the railroad industry, when an engine is acquired as a parts donor about the best that can be hoped for is that ALL the usable parts go to support other restorations. In the end, "Steel to steel, return it must." It's certainly a better fate than having the hulk turned into a wedding chapel.

There’s plenty of examples like that in rail preservation where park locomotives are parts sources. Easiest example I can think of is UP 3977 donating parts to the operation of 3985 when it was still running.

You can’t save them all. And this locomotive had opportunity to be saved, but no one came forward for it. If someone wanted to save it, they should’ve; you can’t be belly aching about “why wasn’t it saved” if you could’ve contributed to it being saved.

I don't do anything at a moments notice especially when it involves thousands of dollars. However a reasonable amount of time such as two weeks should be plenty of notice. As I said before I think $10,000 is a fair and reasonable price for the nose of a E unit and it would the crown jem of my railroad collection. I am also sure there would be a lot of interest from other parties if you were willing to deliver.

Many years ago I was talking to a man near Battle Ground, Washington who cut up the Burlington Northern, F45's and kept some of the cab sections. It was quite a site looking at all these F45 noses just sitting on the ground. He asked me if I wanted to buy one for $1,200 dollars. I asked how much they weigh and he said "not much around 8-10 tons". He said he sold others and put them on a trailer with his forklift. It's not difficult to ship. I was living in a apartment at the time so I had to pass. He gave me a Barco speedometer from one of the F45's for free just for coming out.

As far as everyone knowing about this. I have never heard about it and from all the Facebook posts very few knew about it. It's also wrong to criticize people like myself and others who do care about these old locomotives regardless of condition. There has been a huge outpouring of support and money in the last few years saving many steam and diesel locomotives often in terrible shape. In fact I do not know of a single fundraiser that failed in the last few years where the locomotive was cut up because time or money ran out. Often the owner asks double or triple the selling price of scrap and they get it and a lot more.

Which brings me to my next point. You have to be a horrible business man to not even make a effort to sell a valuable assert and instead sell it for the least possible amount. You are selling it for scrap seriously??? Who thinks like this? This is like having a 57 Chevy in your back yard and you take it to the shredder.

To those who are scrapping these historical locomotives shame on you. If you don't like looking at it sell to someone else. Twenty years from now people are going to be scratching their heads and saying "what were they thinking scrapping E and F units in 2020". I understand the need to part gut and part out locomotives as I used to overhaul locomotives. However there is no need to scrap a F or E unit once it is gutted. It can be a static display, a non powered cab car for excursions or gift shop, restaurant, office, home, and many other uses.

Next time you are debating scrapping historical railroad equipment post it to "Ahead of the torch" group on Facebook. They are a excellent group, with many members who have saved many locomotives.

Alaska Railroad FP7A, #1514, gutted to the extreme. Hauled away on flat bed truck and now part of a railroad themed restaurant in Soldotna, Alaska.

http://www.alaskarails.org/historical/f ... /1514.html

I wouldn't go around bragging about that as an example. Pouring through their Facebook page, the most recent photo I could find of the F unit is in the background of a 2018 photo. It is still sitting on a trailer from the movement, and has seen absolutely no work to speak of. Their actual restaurant is being run out of a former double-decker car from the Alaskan railroad, which I suspect was purchased after the feasibility of using the F unit became realized...

Saved, yes. Restored and used, not that I can see. Everything points to it being in exactly the same condition as the previous owner had it in.

We cant save them all. The next question to ask one's self is how many E and F units do we really need in preservation? When is enough, enough and how do we determine it. The same question goes for steam locomotives. If I recall correctly, the world steam tally sits just over 10,000 locomotives still surviving (maybe less since the count was made). How many are actually needed, will be restored to operation, or better yet will manage to even be preserved under a roof? I agree with others sentiments, that the time to get real is upon us instead of saving every last rusting hulk out there.

Just my 2 cents

Recently we had the Indiana Transportation Museum issue here in Indiana. The EMD "F" units were offered with a $5,000. starting bid, but as we speak, three "A" units and one "B" unit are still sitting and awaiting their date with a scrapper's torch and you all argue over a long dead carcass.

I was just told by a party on Thursday, that did some repair work on the NKP GP7 locomotive that did belong to the ITM, that the city of Noblesville plans on keeping the "F" unit that was painted as an NKP locomotive and the others will be scrapped.

So, rather then continue to blast Mr. Levin, who restored 2 very beautiful "E" units to full operation, get your money out and save more then just the nose of a locomotive.

This is much like voting. If you do not vote, you have NO right to bitch. Same goes here. If you can not put up money to save locomotives or equipment, then take your' armchair quarterbacking somewhere else. Those who are attempting to save the equipment, do need more then just money, they can also use the physical help of other to save and restore this equipment.

Someone brought up the fact that money was raised to save some steam locomotives. I know a GoFund Me was in place for atleast one steam locomotive. Why was one never started to save any of the ITM "F" units?

Eighteen years ago when this started, I was advised when picking up the unit at Mt. Clare "A-yard" to avoid walking through it because I might put my foot through the floor, it was that rusted out. At this point I can't remember for sure, but it might have had a by-pass air hose around the brakes. It truly was a parts donor, sad but true.

I rarely wade into these arguments but I’d like to make a couple points if I may. First, let me say that in my opinion, and many others feel the same, cab units are the handsomest diesels ever built. But:

1) I can understand tourist roads not going after them to restore as they’re just not operationally practical for your common out & back run. A static display at a museum needs context and a story. Just the fact that it’s a cab unit doesn’t mean the public will be clamoring to pay to see it.

2) I trust the Levins to know, after everything of value or of use has been stripped from a rotting carcass, if and when it’s time to bury it. Keep in mind that nowadays it costs you money to scrap something so they aren’t going to do it on a whim. I’m sure it was a well thought out decision.

No delivery, dude. Freight, cranes, etc. are on YOU. This ain't Amazon Prime.



Last I knew there were a couple ex-BN/METRA E-units at Larry's Truck & Electric in Ohio. Go make an offer. I think there may also be one at NRE in Silvis, and there's a chance the E8s and F's at SL&RG/Ellis might meet an ugly end at some point. Get moving.

There. now you can't say you didn't hear about them.



Wrong.
This is like having found a neglected, derelict '57 Chevy that already is missing the motor in some backyard the next state over, you pull it out of the weeds and drag it back to sit in the backyard behind the garage with your OTHER TWO restored showpiece '57 Chevys. Then, after you recognize that you're getting up in your years and you COULD be finding new homes for your showpiece ones someday soon because the insurance and licensing just got stupidly expensive on the runners you have through no fault of your own, and you're not going to get around to that third one and the kid want a vintage Chevy Impala or pick-up instead, you finally let others pull out the stuff they can use for their cars (the back axle and transmission, the wheels, the fender pieces that aren't rusted through, the windshield and one window still intact, etc.), and scrap the little that's left.



Sometimes, "wisdom" includes being wise enough not to enable the delusional.

Selling even a non-functional locomotive for use as a diner, house, B&B, hot dog stand, wedding chapel, etc. will never satisfy the critics that will condemn you for doing so. And the record shows that such reuse seldom ends well for the artifact in question. Not very many cars, cabooses, locomotives, etc. refitted in such a manner survive into true preservation. Indeed, not counting streetcars/trolleys, where in many cases the items in question were "sole survivors" that drove preservation as such, I struggle right now to think of even ONE case where a coach or locomotive was pulled from such "adaptive reuse" and restored to service after numerous doorways, hatches, vents, etc. were carved into them. Instead, I've rescued stuff for other projects off of a few as they were being scrapped.
In effect, all you're doing in this case is prolonging the inevitable.

I know of a few instances where diesel loco cabs/noses were carved off of locos for display/placing in a basement or the like. The only ones that survived long-term, to my knowledge, are a few in the UK that were permanently mounted on trailers for transport to festivals, open days, etc. and ended up in the hands of appropriate preservation groups. And they're shorter and smaller than North American loco cabs.

As of right now, I can think of at least six EMD E-units without assurance of a long-term future, all at least in theory operational or in need of minimal work to make them operable. I can think of at least three other "hulks" that would be available for the "right" price.

What's in YOUR wallet?

The passenger cars at the Chattanooga Choo Choo hotel complex are also parts donors. When they were parked there when the complex was being built, usable parts were removed by TVRM.

ADM is right. Cash and carry is king. Cash and "deliver to me" will probably get glazed over most of the time unless you're dealing with an actual railroad who is happy to get a tax write off.

There is an E something or other painted up in BN located in Nashville. Easily visible from the highway. There's another one. Have fun, be nice, and don't pout when they don't answer the door with tea and crumpets.

Where exactly is this, and from what highway is it visible?

Better yet -- who owns the thing and what are they planning for it? There have been well-established dinner-train operations out of Nashville, IIRC.

This is exactly why tugboat companies have been refusing the sell old boats to people wishing to make houseboats, etc. It almost never works out, and comes back to haunt.

Back to the F/E units - Is that hulk of a Penn Central one still at the Nickle Plate museum still around? There is a contender...Lots of clunkers still around, that are more then just a shell.

Owned by the Tennessee Central Railway Museum. Seen towards the bottom of this page https://www.tcry.org/motive-power

Roger