SOU 722 is probably increasingly edging towards the " in danger" category with each passing year it sits outside disassembled.

There’s a little Baldwin 2-6-2 in Connecticut that a few others and myself would like to see up and running again. Sumter and Choctaw #103 isn’t big, but could be a realistic goal.

Does it have to be just operational restoration? Could it also include cosmetic work on a specific park loco?

Anyways, I guess I’ll throw UP 428 into the mix here. IRM has been going at this project for decades and it would be nice to finally see the thing put back together and running. Would be the only non UP steam program locomotive operating (outside of UP 119 replicas) so it would be unique in that way.

"Is this should not? Or cannot?"

Cannot.

The present Superintendent severed the relationship between the NPS and the local chapter of the NRHS, ordered all work on the project suspended and has taken "other steps" to ensure the project is not discussed publicly.

25 years ago and onward I would’ve agreed. But now? I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have this sort of thing going on.

The main reason for that has to do with the internet. People are far better able to support a project if they know it exists, and obviously the internet is super helpful in that. It’s so much easier to donate or support anything online than before when you could only donate by mail, or support by actually going to the project site: something you can’t always do of course.

But the internet also has the ability to give people a much better medium to create their own groups and restore something. You’re able to garner much more support for a project online than in person, and in my opinion it becomes more and more difficult for small groups to lose attention and fizzle out all together. And even if the in person support is certainly a lot more “real” than likes and follows, the numbers online still matter. Here’s an example of what I mean.

A project like the 557 project would likely not be as successful as it is now if it occurred 25 years ago. If you didn’t go to Alaska or didn’t know someone from Alaska, chances are you don’t find out about that project. Online however? We can see exactly what happens with 557, even if 557 is quite literally halfway across the globe from some of us, and support it, even if you’ve never even set foot in Alaska. The Nevada Northern is another great example of this. Extremely remote location, plays to their online community perfectly, and they’ve taken advantage of it by restoring their #81, a locomotive that has never operated in preservation, something I don’t think they could’ve done 25 years ago.

I think it’s totally fine to have so many projects going on at once. It honestly just gives me so much hope for the future to see so much being cared for. So many different groups caring for so many pieces, and that also comes with many of the “basket cases” as we’ve known for so many years now finally getting the care they truly deserve.

Agree. Although we would have probably been able to recruit a cadre of volunteers and local financial and in-kind supporters, we would have missed out on the substantial part of our financial support from individual donors who are out-of-state and outside of the U.S. (Thank you donors!) Social media has also made communication more effective and efficient both locally and at a distance. Although Facebook has its disadvantages, it is certainly easier to reach out via that media than as it was with the many newsletters I've done over the years.

So, you’re telling me that 3713 is not actively being restored right now? We’ve gotten updates in May 2021.

If that is in fact true, she should be immediately removed from her position, because of all the time, money, and resources that will have been wasted if the locomotive never runs. Wouldn't the NRHS have some legal recourse for all the money they have raised going to waste if the project does not continue? This would make no sense at all, as a new Firebox had just been delivered. Who would want to volunteer for anything there if all your work would be in vain? It was bad enough when this happened with 565!

John Rembis

@mcGrath618

That's exactly what I'm telling you. Work may be continuing by contractors for already contracted deliverables, but the park staff is not working on the engine. The decision was made after that update. I was first alerted last month.

@Rem1028

"If that is in fact true, she should be immediately removed from her position, because of all the time, money, and resources that will have been wasted if the locomotive never runs."

You mean like heads are rolling over CNJ 1021? You did see the $860K PO I posted here, right.

I'm afraid you really don't understand how the Park Service operates-a major feature of its personnel management system is a lack of accountability. One of the former Superintendents knew the Baldwin 26 project (a simple saturated 0-6-0) was taking entirely too much time, but was unable to do anything except refer to a now retired employee who was long on excuses and short on progress as RIP (Retired in Place).

As for Superintendent accountability-here's an egregious and clear violation and how the matter was handled.

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2 ... images4784

Latschar as you may remember was at Steamtown until 1994.

So forget the television portrayals. Scully and Mulder don't exist; Strzok and Page do.


"Wouldn't the NRHS have some legal recourse for all the money they have raised going to waste if the project does not continue?"

I'm not an attorney, but I'm sure that even if they did (and as I understand it, to sue the federal government means getting around "sovereign immunity") it's impracticable to pursue. As a practical matter, you can't sue city hall. Funds have been raised for decades, many donors are dead.

If I was on the Board (hint, hint) of that organization I would certainly solicit legal counsel to see how to discharge fiduciary responsibility over funds raised with a specific purpose that was predicated on a relationship with a government entity that no longer exists.

"This would make no sense at all, as a new Firebox had just been delivered. Who would want to volunteer for anything there if all your work would be in vain? It was bad enough when this happened with 565!"

Oh that's nothing, real dispiriting occurs when you are harassed while recovering from chemotherapy over a then 17 month old social media post which said "hey if you remember the Grand Opening and want to get together, post here". That supposedly required a "special use permit".


Ironically, the employee dispatched to do the harassment has reportedly eft the facility, and also according to my sources a manager took a demotion to leave.

Recently, a former Steamtown employee sent me something under the heading "for your file". Funny thing, I never told him I had a file.

I would suggest that the best use of this locomotive would be to display it in a partially disassembled state to explain and interpret the work that backshops (like Altoona) did in building and rebuilding locomotives. Showing the wear and explaining the work that various crafts did to make repairs would help to make the history of 20th century industrial work real to visitors.

Conversely, I'm concerned that if it is outside for another 10-20 years that progressive corrosion would make it difficult to interpret anything but the frame and wheels.

There are a number of small industrial / logging / agricultural locomotives that have limited historical significance and no prospect of restoration that would do well as prop locomotives.

I would rather folks think about the timeframe of these projects and costs involved for good reason. There is real risk of loosing sources for coal supply for coal burners. Its already happened in other countries and it would be narrow sighted to think it couldnt happen here. I would sleep much better knowing the operators of steamers in operation or overhaul designed as coal burners to covert to a oil fired source. Call me a doomsdayer or negative person but I restore classic cars and I'm currently concerned about where regulation is headed and contemplating potential regulation scenarios I would never have imagined 5 years ago. Places like the Black Hills banned coal burners in the 30s and alot of the operations are in scenic areas. Its not hard to think it can happen there to. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

The course of the original topic has wandered a bit, but no issue from me. I wander as well.
My (perhaps unstated) intent was to point out restorations which are in progress, making progress, can be completed within a reasonable time period (say a decade or less), and will make a difference to not only the preservation community, but to educational goals, and local economies.

Already mentioned are: LIRR 39, MEC 470, both locomotives with places to run once completed. Alaska 557, "The Stripe", K4s 1361, RDG 2100, PRR T1 5550.

A separate topic might be locomotives started and dropped for no reason other than disinterest or neglect.

Superheater is sharing some valuable inside intel. It's been long obvious that the position of Superintendent at Steamtown is only a stepping stone towards a bigger and better post. I'm told that the inside joke at the senior levels of the Dep't. of Interior is " if you misbehave we can always exile you to Scranton". In other words it's not a reward but rather a punishment.

As a serious steam lover I long ago realized that Steamtown was created by Cong. Joe McDade to be a Jobs Corp. and steam trains were just the handy excuse. Since its Grand Opening in 1995 it has consumed approx. $ 130 million ( yes million) in taxpayer dollars and hasn't been able to restore a SINGLE mainline locomotive in the collection to service NOR keep several runners they inherited running.

As intended most of the money goes to a bloated payroll. On many winter days the staff far out numbers the paid visitors. Only in America.

Therefore Superheater's angst with the current counter productive Super while being no doubt justified is of no importance ( sadly)as she'll move on and be replaced by another one who is serving their term in the penalty box known as Scranton.

Sad but true. Ross Rowland

I agree with Ross, as long as there is a Steamtown for them to be "exiled" to. It's hard to imagine many people continuing to visit a completely static museum, and anyone being interested in repeat visits after seeing it once. Stopping 3713's restoration could end up being one of the final nails in the coffin. Is it strictly because of COVID government restrictions for the NPS that no trains have operated the last two years, while tourist railroads have almost all resumed operations, or the Superintendent's choice to have nothing operating? The information provided by Superheater is eye opening to say the least. The cost to restore the CNJ coach seemed like an egregious example of government waste, but is nothing compared to the money and time spent on 3713 only to have it languish, and to kill the relationship with the main backers of the project.

John

I thought you meant which we would like to ride behind on a train...... oh, well.