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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:03 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: B'more Maryland
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
And then "we" elected a "hair-sniffing creep" to the White House. Basically instantly negating your entire proposition.
Sorry, I'm not buying that fairy tale.


That is, simply, nonsense.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:34 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 139
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
And then "we" elected a "hair-sniffing creep" to the White House. Basically instantly negating your entire proposition.
Sorry, I'm not buying that fairy tale.


That is, simply, nonsense.


You may have your own opinion, but I agree with ADMIV!


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11832
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
And then "we" elected a "hair-sniffing creep" to the White House. Basically instantly negating your entire proposition.
Sorry, I'm not buying that fairy tale.


That is, simply, nonsense.

Approximately half of the nation would likely disagree with you (although, admittedly, it's hardly their only reason for rejection of the person in question).

A reminder that perceptions, not actual actionable offenses, are typically more than enough in politics to render someone irredeemably "toxic" if they are part of "the wrong" political side.
If they are of the "correct" political persuasion, of course, such manifestations of sexism, bigotry, ignorance, etc. are easily overlooked and willfully ignored. (The "lesser of two evils," mind you, is still evil.)

And to bring this back to the thread topic:
Again: The reality doesn't matter. If you are PERCEIVED as sexist/ageist/whatever, that perception will be used against you far more than any positivity you may foster.


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2693
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Have we wasted enough bandwidth on this nonsense yet ???

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:08 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 534
Location: Danbury, CT
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
If you are PERCEIVED as sexist/ageist/whatever, that perception will be used against you far more than any positivity you may foster.



This is an accurate statement regardless of opinion. Guilty or not, once a person is labeled it’s near impossible to remove.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:49 am
Posts: 770
Rick Rowlands wrote:
Geepster wrote:
As much as it felt good in the moments when visitors stopped by with their little kids to watch as I wrenching on something or excitedly waved back when I stopped to smile and wave out the door of a cab unit to them, it would be nice to reach a point where women were so commonplace around the shops or in service that it needn't be a holy-smokes-look-it's-a-woman, stop-in-their-tracks moment, because there was plenty of that.


That will happen but it does take time. There is no getting around that. Whenever women have entered any workplace dominated by men there is a period of adjustment that takes place where the women are treated as you describe. But it does tend to go away as the presence of women becomes commonplace. It will never completely disappear because some men are pigs and that is one of the undeniable truths of life.

Geepster wrote:
It would be nice to have men out there reading this thread commit to starting to 'check' each other if they're out in a group or congregating online when those remarks crop up, but it may be too much of an ask for some. That said, I'd like to think there are at least a few, as evidenced by this thread, who would be willing to do so and very likely already are. All it takes is someone to start modeling the behavior and others may follow suit.


Some of us already do that. But sometimes you just need to climb down out of the locomotive cab, walk over and grab that disrespecting guy by his collar and tell him in no uncertain terms that you belong in that cab, you are not going anywhere and if he does not start treating women with respect that you will throw his ass in the firebox and all the men here will applaud as you do it. Sometimes you have to fight for the respect you deserve.


Early in my railroad career, I literally barricaded my boss in his office after an uttered racial slur. He never did it again...


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:23 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Reading, PA, USA
Txhighballer wrote:
Rick Rowlands wrote:
Geepster wrote:
As much as it felt good in the moments when visitors stopped by with their little kids to watch as I wrenching on something or excitedly waved back when I stopped to smile and wave out the door of a cab unit to them, it would be nice to reach a point where women were so commonplace around the shops or in service that it needn't be a holy-smokes-look-it's-a-woman, stop-in-their-tracks moment, because there was plenty of that.


That will happen but it does take time. There is no getting around that. Whenever women have entered any workplace dominated by men there is a period of adjustment that takes place where the women are treated as you describe. But it does tend to go away as the presence of women becomes commonplace. It will never completely disappear because some men are pigs and that is one of the undeniable truths of life.

Geepster wrote:
It would be nice to have men out there reading this thread commit to starting to 'check' each other if they're out in a group or congregating online when those remarks crop up, but it may be too much of an ask for some. That said, I'd like to think there are at least a few, as evidenced by this thread, who would be willing to do so and very likely already are. All it takes is someone to start modeling the behavior and others may follow suit.


Some of us already do that. But sometimes you just need to climb down out of the locomotive cab, walk over and grab that disrespecting guy by his collar and tell him in no uncertain terms that you belong in that cab, you are not going anywhere and if he does not start treating women with respect that you will throw his ass in the firebox and all the men here will applaud as you do it. Sometimes you have to fight for the respect you deserve.


Early in my railroad career, I literally barricaded my boss in his office after an uttered racial slur. He never did it again...


Heart reacts to the above, Txhighballer.
And for Rick, thanks for your thoughtful feedback. I genuinely appreciate the time you took to offer your views on what I shared. I'm under no illusions that the three *carefully* selected anecdotes I provided are examples of 'sexism'. And yeah, one was transparently textbook sexual harassment (being a certificated HR professional and having worked on federal/state labor law compliance, I'm well aware!). The other two were simply served up as examples of the general unpleasant environment created by the organization's poor leadership which clouded my experience. (The fish stinks from the head down, as they say.) Again, the actual equipment restoration volunteers I worked alongside where outstanding individuals who I maintain contact with to this day, but there's a reason there was an exodus and that group of folks is no longer associated with the organization. But I digress...

I'm on the board of a non-railroad-related historical society, and we've made significant steps to create a more welcoming, inclusive environment for visitors, volunteers, and staff. One of the steps was revisiting board policies, which is standard given the requirements placed on nonprofits by funders. The other was creating a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Committee, which meets monthly to discuss various topics related to making the educational environment open and accessible to all, develop recommended readings for the board as a whole, and perpetuate a cultural shift of the org from seemingly exclusive club/personal playground for certain long-time 'faces' which effectively isolated it from the surrounding community, leading to every-dwindling membership numbers, to one that is open, approachable, sensitive to the changing demographics and norms of society at large, and just a good neighbor. It's been ugly and heated at times, and we've had uncomfortable conversations which are similar to ones in this thread, but pushing past it is imperative for the long-term viability of the preservation movement as a whole, be it historical, folk material culture, rail equipment, or what-have-you. If you don't recognize the shift and make appropriate changes so that your group is on sound footing, with leadership who truly walk the walk and set the tone for everyone else, you're doomed to irrelevancy. If some refuse to change, eh...maybe it's time for them to move along.


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:52 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:49 am
Posts: 770
Well said Geepster, and thank you. It's time for inclusion, not exclusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:19 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Annville, PA
Reading's always been a hotbed of communist activity in southeastern Pennsylvania, Geepster, so you've got to cater to your customer base, I suppose...

https://www.berkshistory.org/multimedia ... etrospect/

Sorry, I told myself I wasn't going to post in this thread again but I just couldn't resist that one. LOL Are you good with paint colors by any chance?


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:04 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1546
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Seashore Trolley Museum has announced:

Saturday, August 21: All Women Crew Day! Women will be operating trolleys, docents, and dispatching. Presentations by Ann Thompson about Women's Role in Transit History.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 6:16 am 

Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 11:28 pm
Posts: 90
Why's alex rumbling on about none of us thinking Ross is being a chucklehead here? He should be banned or at least warned for that genius comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:27 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: B'more Maryland
NVPete wrote:
Reading's always been a hotbed of communist activity in southeastern Pennsylvania, Geepster, so you've got to cater to your customer base, I suppose...

https://www.berkshistory.org/multimedia ... etrospect/

Sorry, I told myself I wasn't going to post in this thread again but I just couldn't resist that one. LOL Are you good with paint colors by any chance?


Quote:
The Socialists established the first purchasing department in the city’s government, and it is still an important department at city hall. The Socialists also abolished the contract system for providing various city services and replaced this with permanent municipal employees. Parks and recreation areas were constructed by the Socialists, and their administration provided the basis for the city’s first zoning ordinance.


What a bunch of dangerous un-American subversives!

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Annville, PA
I don't see anything un-American about those breed of socialists, Ed, but it is interesting how that particular grass roots movement died out after being co-opted by brainwashed younger people supporting the mainstream uniparty establishment. That Maurer guy actually sounds like he was a lot like President Trump who is actually a conservative Democrat just like President Kennedy was. LOL

With full-blown top-down totalitarian communism, however, only the upper one percent of the hierarchy are allowed to wear the fancy woolen Mao suits. The rest of us only get polyester.


Last edited by NVPete on Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: B'more Maryland
NVPete wrote:
I don't see anything un-American about those breed of socialists, Ed, but it is interesting how that particular grass roots movement died out after being co-opted by brainwashed younger people supporting the mainstream Democratic establishment.

Just remember, with full-blown totalitarian communism, only the top one percent of the hierarchy are allowed to wear the fancy woolen Mao suits. The rest of us only get polyester.


What are you talking about?

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 Post subject: Re: Sexism in Rail Preservation
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 2:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Annville, PA
Just take the time to read it again, Ed. I edited my last post to help clarify.


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