> Hello

> I have a couple old postcards showing a
> cable car in operation at Knott's Berry Farm
> in California. The photos aren't that
> detailed and do not show the track all that
> well, so I'm not sure if it was a
> "true" cable car anymore. Anybody
> have more info on this, still there? Method
> of propulsion?

> Dave Crosby

Although it was before my time, I understand that the Knott's cars were battery powered with storage air brakes. My info comes from car 43 at OERM. The batteries ran a small electric motor which drove one axle by means of a chain and sprocket. Each car had a pair of air reservoirs underneath which presumably were charged up between runs as needed. No sign of a brake cylinder or other brake linkage underneath, so I don't know how the air brakes actually applied the brake shoes.

Interestingly, I have an early postcard from Knott's showing one of the cable cars, but there are no air tanks visible underneath. Perhaps they tried it at first just using the tread brakes and wooden track brakes which are normally just applied with a foot pedal that you can stand on and a brake lever.

We finally removed the air reservoirs from underneath car 43 at OERM earlier this year.

Other similar double-ended Cal Cable cars in California that I can think of include one at Travel Town in Los Angeles, one at Kelley Park in San Jose and one at the museum in Poway (which they are working on making into a battery operated unit once again).

Orange Empire Railway Museum
jsmatlak@earthlink.net

one at Kelley
> Park in San Jose

We have car #23 inside our trolley barn at Kelley Barn. The car was originally donated to Santa Clara County in the 1950's to be used as a park bench at the fairgrounds, adjacent to the steam locomotive. At some point, someone had the foresight to build a roof structure over the car. Eventually, the county removed the car to open storage. After months/years of prodding, the county agreed to donate the car to our organization for preservation in 1997(?). Considering how long the car was open to the public, it is remarkably intact. Last week, a few of us discussed restoring a small portion of the car as a "before and after" exhibit within our barn.


kamiddle@rockwellcollins.com

Knotts Berry Farm used a fleet of ex-California Street cars to operate a parking lot shuttle or loop service. I remember riding it as a kid.

These cars were bought after the City of SF acquired the California Street system and truncated the California Street system. The length of the line on California was cut back and the Hyde Street line was cut back and tied into the Jackson and Washington loop of the Powell Street cars (ex-Market St Ry). With the changes there were excess cars and Knotts bought a bunch of them. Later on most of these cars were sold back to the Muni.

I think one of the Interurban Press books on the Municipal Ry of SF has roster information. No time now to look it up.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net

> I have to admit that upon close examination
> of the photos on ebay that it may not be a
> double ended car. I based that statement on
> the claim that the car was from the
> O'farrell Jones and Hyde line. This line
> used double ended cars until 1954 when half
> of the line was abandoned (making many cars
> available for sale) and the other half was
> joined to the Washington/Jackson line to
> creat the Powell/Hyde line which is operated
> by Muni. A turntable was installed at the
> end of Hyde to allow the use of single ended
> cars at this time.

I have now looked at the eBay item. I have also now pulled off the bookself the book "Inside Muni" by John McKane and Anthony Perles; Interurban Press 1982,

The car in the photos IS a double ended car. Most of the California Street cars had four window closed sections and open sections with only two posts each end (shorter than the open sections on the Powell St. cars). If you look closely at the photos on the eBay page you will see the second open section.

The quoted number, 45, is reported to have been sold in 1953 and was reported to be at Marelco Ranch in Oregon.

The lower numbered cars of Cal cable, 1-23, were side grip cars and used on the orginal California Street line.

The higher number group, 38-59, were bottom grip cars and used on the Hyde-Jones-O'Farrell line. The Hyde line was one of the last lines built in San Francisco and as such it had to take the lower position at all cable crossings. The line had something like 21 let-goes on a round trip.

There were another three cars 60,61 and 62 that were only 22'5" long with three-window center sections and one post open sections. These were used on the Jones Street shuttle off of the Hyde-Jones-O'Farrell line. #61 was fitted up on a rubber-tired bus chassis by the Muni and numbered 62.

All together the excess California Cable cars went all around the world from Osaka, Japan ("sister city") to Nebraksa to Montreal.

Brian Norden

bnorden49@earthlink.net