It is currently Sat Aug 22, 2026 5:20 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Fence or gate across ROW
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 5:21 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:42 am
Posts: 83
Location: Either behind my desk or on my phone
First things first –

When we’re dealing with railroad class a roman numeral (I, II or III) is an ICC/STB classification based on common carrier revenue. There are seven class Is (probably soon to be six) in the US: BNSF, CN, CP, CSX, KCS, NS, and UP). Railroads referred to as ‘regionals’ are generally class II. Everybody else is a class III. If you are not a common carrier freight hauler this doesn’t even apply to you.

Arabic numerals refer to track condition, not the company. 49 CFR 213.9 spells out the classes and the speed limits for each class. The lower the number the lower the speed limit.
Attachment:
Screenshot 2022-03-31 at 05-15-32 eCFR 49 CFR 213.9 -- Classes of track operating speed limits.png
Screenshot 2022-03-31 at 05-15-32 eCFR 49 CFR 213.9 -- Classes of track operating speed limits.png [ 86.82 KiB | Viewed 3036 times ]

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-II/part-213?toc=1

There are a series of lawsuits which have been going on for a decade or so in a western state in part because when the original operating and lease agreements were written somebody used “Class 3” in the text when they should have said “Class III” (“The line shall be operated as a Class 3 Railroad”) and this was later interpreted to require track maintained for 40 mph instead of the much more reasonable 10 to 25 MPH.

Second things second –

Remember that ”abandonment” in a railroad context refers to common carrier authority not a property right and that even if there is a reversionary clause in the easement it may not apply to an abandonment consummated in this century but you need your own lawyer to answer that for you.

Next –

You want to have everything in in order before you have that little chat with the property owner. (Most of this you really ought to have in a filing cabinet anyway.)

Obtain all the property documents dating back to the original charter. You may want to hire a title company or an appraiser who deals in railroad property to do this.

Pull and read all of the STB filings and decisions regarding the property.

Document your chain of title to the right to operate.

Document your common carrier status if you are a common carrier and if so that it covers the property in question. (I’ve seen several cases where a tourist line thought that they were covered by federal preemption but as they were not common carriers were not. Regulation by the FRA does not confer preemption.)

If there has already been an abandonment of common carrier authority check the property’s status under the National Trails Act (Notice of Interim Trail Use).

After you have put everything together spend a little bit of money on a consultation with an attorney who deals in trails act and abandonments.

Then try to sit down over a cup of coffee with the party who put up the fence before you inflict a legal notice on them.

Having written that I did a little bit of research - It appears that Sierra Pacific did consummate their abandonment of common carrier status in 2006 and that you are no longer connected to the general system so there is no preemption or common carrier question. Remember that they may have good cause even if it's mistaken to believe that it is their property and that they are your neighbors. They aren’t any more likely to go away than you are.

_________________
Meghan

Subscribing to my grandfather's philosophy that no case is so weak or cause so harebrained that somebody cannot be found to handle it in exchange for a sufficient retainer up front.


Last edited by Meghan on Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fence or gate across ROW
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 6:25 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2696
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
On the Chehalis WA tourist operation, we crossed several farms that straddled the right of way. Every now and then, we'd come up on where a farmer had moved cattle across and strung wires across the tracks. We'd get down, put each wire back across it's proper fence opening, and off we'd go.
The riders always seemed to love it when it happened, it made for a better story later than just, "we rode and train out and back".

_________________
Lee Bishop


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fence or gate across ROW
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 492
Location: Strasburg, PA
Meghan wrote:
... Having written that I did a little bit of research - It appears that Sierra Pacific did consummate their abandonment of common carrier status in 2006 and that you are no longer connected to the general system so there is no preemption or common carrier question. Remember that they may have good cause even if it's mistaken to believe that it is their property and that they are your neighbors. They aren’t any more likely to go away than you are.

Ouch.

Meghan, that was an excellent and professional summary of the issues.

_________________
Steve


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fence or gate across ROW
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm
Posts: 466
Location: Ipswich, Mass., Phoenix, AZ
When we returned the Elk River RR to service after it being OOS for an extended period (15-20 years?) as we came around a curve in the locomotives trial run we encountered a local landowner driving across the tracks to harvest timber from his property. He had no other access than across the tracks. A calm discussion with him prompted me to go to the country office and research the title by which the Coal and Coke RR had originally acquired the land. It turned out that not only did he have the rights to a private crossing but we had the responsibility to build and maintain a fence line, none of which had (apparently) ever been done. He had no interest in us building and maintaining a grade crossing at his expense nor did I have an interest in building and maintaining a fence line at ours. So we compromised at his building (to our specifications) a temporary crossing which would then be removed after he finished harvesting his timber and no fence line. Had I been hot-headed it might have ended badly plus we might have run him over! But all ended well, we stopped on time and he got his timber and we got a good relationship with an abutter.
Lesson: Do your research. Be aware of, and respect, abutter's rights and they may possibly respect yours.
Ned


Last edited by nedsn3 on Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fence or gate across ROW
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:07 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:41 pm
Posts: 11
We have determined that abandonment was not consumated due to an unsatisfied historic preservation condition. The mill filed to have the consumation letter rescinded, which it was, and before anything else could happen, the railroad was transferred to our ownership.

Research pays off.

-JCA


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fence or gate across ROW
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 445
Location: Ontario, Canada.
“Don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up.”
- G. K. Chesterton

"Love your neighbour as yourself."
- Jesus of Nazareth


Good advice, both. In the first instance, that fence could be holding back a raging bull. In the second instance, if you truly love your neighbour, and he or she loves you, you should always get along!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fence or gate across ROW
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:56 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 am
Posts: 67
The old CRR of NJ South Branch went through the Duke Estate in Hillsborough, NJ. Mr Duke had a gate installed at each end of his property across the ROW to keep out trespassers. Whenever the CNJ ran a train through the property, they had to unlock the gate go through and relock it, They did the same process at the other end exiting the property. They had to do this in each direction for many years until they abandoned the line from Somerville, NJ to Flemington, NJ.

Fred Heilich


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: